5 ms·

No it does not. It simply requires that the UK ensure that no hard (customs) border is required in Ireland. A key component of the Good Friday Agreement which

by derriz 8y ago

No it does not. It simply requires that the UK ensure that no hard (customs) border is required in Ireland. A key component of the Good Friday Agreement which ended 3 decades of bloodshed on the island of Ireland was that physical border checks between the two states whould be phased out. All it requires is that the UK accepts that EU customs checks are performed between Britain and Ireland rather than at the Irish border. This option is supported by the Irish government and has popular and business support in Northern Ireland. I have no idea why the extreme brexiteers find this idea so objectionable? It's a popular in Ireland, North and South; it satisfies the EU (a sponsor of the peace deal) and it allows brexiteers COMPLETE freedom to negotiate any type of future trading relationship they want.

detaro 8y ago
To be fair, "simply" introducing a hard border between parts of your country isn't quite... simply. Which country would do that? In addition, it's a pretty crappy symbol of "getting independence" if you "leave behind" a part of your country to get it, and that's how it's understandably perceived. And May's government relies on the DUP to achieve a majority in parliament, for which this is wholly unacceptable, since it stands for getting closer to the main land and not being one with Ireland. (of course she doesn't have a majority now, but the DUP might very well have broken away long ago if this had been a plan)
- davidgay 8y ago
  https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_franche_du_pays_de_Gex https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_franche_du_pays_de_Gex There was a custom's border inside France from 1815[0] to 2008, with different treatment for imports/exports from Switzerland to the small part of France beyond that custom's border. According to that article, you can still buy cars w/o EU import duties in that part of France... [0]: Yes, as a result of Napoleon's defeat and as part of Geneva joining Switzerland.
yholio 8y ago
> I have no idea why the extreme brexiteers find this idea so objectionable? Because it's a slippery slope that looks very much like ceding territory. It's not just border checks, but Northern Ireland would be effectively in the EU as far as customs rules and tariffs. Otherwise, you could circumvent the EU tariffs by importing in the UK, moving the goods "internally" to NE then loading them on a truck and unloading somewhere in the rest Ireland. This differentiated regime would strengthen economic ties with Ireland and weaken those with Britain.
- derriz 8y ago
  Do you object to the Good Friday Agreement? Because its fundamental principle is that the constitional status of Northern Ireland was a matter for the people of Northern Ireland alone. If the vast majority of people in NI are happy to be part of the EU customs zone and allowing them their wish (in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement) also allows brexiteers to turn the rest of the UK into a Singapore (Reece-Mogg) or a Venezuala (Corbyn) as they see fit without any encumberance from the EU, then what's the problem? I just don't get it. A year ago, some of the leading voices of the Brexit movement were advocating special customs zones to be set up around the UK, once free for EU competition rules. There were news stories with brexiteers advocating a Tyneside Customs zone, for example. Why is it fine for Tyneside to be have a separate customs zone to the rest of the UK but not Northern Ireland?
- philwelch 8y ago
  The alternative is a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, which the UK specifically agreed not to do in the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border, combined with the overwhelming preference of North Irish to remain in the EU, increases the chance of a successful North Irish referendum for unification with Ireland. If the UK allows such a referendum and Ireland unifies, then the UK is ceding territory anyway. So there's really a no-win scenario assuming that the UK leaves the EU customs union. If the UK wanted to commit a further violation of the Good Friday Agreement and act to prevent an Irish reunification referendum, or ignore the results of one, the Troubles would very likely start all over again, and the UK would be in no position to negotiate any kind of cease-fire because they would have demonstrated twice over that they can't be trusted in such things.
clappski 8y ago
Because the current government only have a majority due to a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP, who would break off that agreement if there was a border between Northern Ireland and RoUK as part of the deal. Overall to Brexit supports in Britain it doesn’t really matter, it mainly matters politically for the current government. Without the DUP they would effectively be a minority government.
peteretep 8y ago
There's a really simple answer to this. You said: > All it requires is that the UK accepts that EU customs checks are performed between Britain and Ireland ... I have no idea why the extreme brexiteers find this idea so objectionable? Generally they don't. However the government is only in power with the support of the DUP[0] who see it as THE END OF THE WORLD, and it would be a complete anathema to Ulster loyalists[1], whose are (essentially) half of the Good Friday Agreement. In short: if they accepted this, the British government would fall and armed conflict could well break out again in Northern Ireland. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Unionist_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Unionist_Party [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_loyalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_loyalism

by derriz 8y ago

detaro 8y ago

To be fair, "simply" introducing a hard border between parts of your country isn't quite... simply. Which country would do that? In addition, it's a pretty crappy symbol of "getting independence" if you "leave behind" a part of your country to get it, and that's how it's understandably perceived. And May's government relies on the DUP to achieve a majority in parliament, for which this is wholly unacceptable, since it stands for getting closer to the main land and not being one with Ireland. (of course she doesn't have a majority now, but the DUP might very well have broken away long ago if this had been a plan)

davidgay 8y ago
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_franche_du_pays_de_Gex https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_franche_du_pays_de_Gex There was a custom's border inside France from 1815[0] to 2008, with different treatment for imports/exports from Switzerland to the small part of France beyond that custom's border. According to that article, you can still buy cars w/o EU import duties in that part of France... [0]: Yes, as a result of Napoleon's defeat and as part of Geneva joining Switzerland.

yholio 8y ago

> I have no idea why the extreme brexiteers find this idea so objectionable? Because it's a slippery slope that looks very much like ceding territory. It's not just border checks, but Northern Ireland would be effectively in the EU as far as customs rules and tariffs. Otherwise, you could circumvent the EU tariffs by importing in the UK, moving the goods "internally" to NE then loading them on a truck and unloading somewhere in the rest Ireland. This differentiated regime would strengthen economic ties with Ireland and weaken those with Britain.

derriz 8y ago
Do you object to the Good Friday Agreement? Because its fundamental principle is that the constitional status of Northern Ireland was a matter for the people of Northern Ireland alone. If the vast majority of people in NI are happy to be part of the EU customs zone and allowing them their wish (in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement) also allows brexiteers to turn the rest of the UK into a Singapore (Reece-Mogg) or a Venezuala (Corbyn) as they see fit without any encumberance from the EU, then what's the problem? I just don't get it. A year ago, some of the leading voices of the Brexit movement were advocating special customs zones to be set up around the UK, once free for EU competition rules. There were news stories with brexiteers advocating a Tyneside Customs zone, for example. Why is it fine for Tyneside to be have a separate customs zone to the rest of the UK but not Northern Ireland?
philwelch 8y ago
The alternative is a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, which the UK specifically agreed not to do in the Good Friday Agreement. A hard border, combined with the overwhelming preference of North Irish to remain in the EU, increases the chance of a successful North Irish referendum for unification with Ireland. If the UK allows such a referendum and Ireland unifies, then the UK is ceding territory anyway. So there's really a no-win scenario assuming that the UK leaves the EU customs union. If the UK wanted to commit a further violation of the Good Friday Agreement and act to prevent an Irish reunification referendum, or ignore the results of one, the Troubles would very likely start all over again, and the UK would be in no position to negotiate any kind of cease-fire because they would have demonstrated twice over that they can't be trusted in such things.

clappski 8y ago

Because the current government only have a majority due to a confidence and supply agreement with the DUP, who would break off that agreement if there was a border between Northern Ireland and RoUK as part of the deal. Overall to Brexit supports in Britain it doesn’t really matter, it mainly matters politically for the current government. Without the DUP they would effectively be a minority government.

peteretep 8y ago

There's a really simple answer to this. You said: > All it requires is that the UK accepts that EU customs checks are performed between Britain and Ireland ... I have no idea why the extreme brexiteers find this idea so objectionable? Generally they don't. However the government is only in power with the support of the DUP[0] who see it as THE END OF THE WORLD, and it would be a complete anathema to Ulster loyalists[1], whose are (essentially) half of the Good Friday Agreement. In short: if they accepted this, the British government would fall and armed conflict could well break out again in Northern Ireland. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Unionist_Party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Unionist_Party [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_loyalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulster_loyalism