4 ms·

They are trying to squeeze every last ounce of profit they can out of the carbon economy with the full knowledge that it must be dismantled within the next few

by smadge 8y ago

They are trying to squeeze every last ounce of profit they can out of the carbon economy with the full knowledge that it must be dismantled within the next few decades. It’s a cynical game, externalizing the catastrophic costs of climate change on to billions of current and future people for the benefit of shareholders and executives, a tiny minority.

briantakita 8y ago
They are actually in control over the movement to "end" the carbon economy. It's relatively easy to measure, quantify, & tax carbon dioxide emissions. It's more difficult to be concerned over the plethora of industrial environmental toxins that affect local areas & ecosystems, such as lead, methane, cadmium, etc; which cut into the profits of many industries. The carbon credit movement serves multiple purposes: * to consolidate governance, legal, & market authority to a bureaucracy (which is controllable with capital) * to create a carbon market that is exposed to financialization (derivative products) * to distract attention of environmental activists away from environmental toxins (especially toxins that affect local areas which would affect profits) * to create a barrier of entry for competing technologies, systems, & communities into the markets * to create a movement of concerned people who believe in an ideology that they control With the excessive fear re: CO2 emissions, the population is more willing to accept suggested measures (by these same hegemonic entities), to "solve" (via carbon markets) the "problem". Perception is reality...
- smadge 8y ago
  While I agree that the fossil fuel industry is positioning itself to prosper in a post fossil fuel economy, I don’t believe that it is completely manufacturing the concern over climate change.
  - briantakita 8y ago
    That's fine & I agree that the climate is changing. If you don't believe me re: the fossil fuel industry appropriating the "climate change" movement, look at who funds various studies & organizations that are major players in the dissemination of climate change science. There's a grain of truth, but these organizations seek to "get ahead of the story" so it can influence the population with a narrative of it's choosing. Are you aware of the "grand solar minimum" which has recently begun? The sun will be emitting less heat, which will result in Earth having a lower temperature. Historically, this has led to significantly less crop yields, more ice, colder temperatures (especially is Europe and NE United States). Heightened warfare (due to resource limitation/competition) & Mass disease (e.g. the bubonic plague) are another consequence. Empires (e.g. Rome) have collapsed during periods of solar dimming, so be prepared; Winter is Coming! While there may be some anthropomorphic global warming from CO2, it will not offset the reduction of heat from the Sun. Also note the plethora of other anthropomorphic effects which are not talked about as often, such as Atmospheric Aerosol Injection & weather modification technologies. Atmospheric Aerosol Injection uses sulfates, which increase the flammability of forests due to being highly flammable & killing/weakening vegetation. There's plenty of f*ckery that is not reported...
    - henearkr 8y ago
      Here you are disproved: https://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=21 https://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=21 You're welcome.
      - briantakita 8y ago
        Given the speculative, provincial, emerging, & cultural nature of scientific research, a scientific paper is not a proof. Given the aggressiveness & pervasiveness of the propaganda for certain teleological ideologies, I have my doubts as to the integrity of the processes & individuals involved. Time will tell what will happen. I'll place my bet & you can place your bet... The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted; but I'm sure a scientist will write it off as the "wierding of weather", "obviously" based mainly on anthropomorphic carbon emissions. So you can still "debunk", via appeal to authority, anybody who doubts the scientific hegemony with another scientific paper. An effective strategy, in the face of uncertainty & incomplete knowledge, is to track the possibility space & to keep optionality (and discussion) open. Good luck...
        Oletros 8y ago
        So, if reality doesn't match my hypotesis I dissmiss reality? By the way: > The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted Confussing climate with weather?
        briantakita 8y ago
        I don't know, but probably, since we interpret reality through the lens of our biases & models we are exposed to/believe in. There's unknown unknowns in a complex phenomena re: climate. According to this video, a signature of CO2 warming is the surface & lower atmosphere warms while the upper atmosphere cools. https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 Yet the current heavy snow storm in Europe is being caused by the splitting of the polar vortex, caused by warming in the stratosphere. https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-polar-vortex-has-fallen-apart-and-that-could-unleash-a-much https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-po... There's speculation that the acceleration of movement of the magnetic poles may have a factor, but it's a complex system... https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-vortex-weakening-colder-jan-2019 https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-... Point is, there are many complex dynamics at play & it's tempting to many people to subscribe a single factor as the primary cause. The reality is far more complex than what many of us would prefer, so many of us view reality with a simpler lens that we wish to see things with...

by smadge 8y ago

briantakita 8y ago

They are actually in control over the movement to "end" the carbon economy. It's relatively easy to measure, quantify, & tax carbon dioxide emissions. It's more difficult to be concerned over the plethora of industrial environmental toxins that affect local areas & ecosystems, such as lead, methane, cadmium, etc; which cut into the profits of many industries. The carbon credit movement serves multiple purposes: * to consolidate governance, legal, & market authority to a bureaucracy (which is controllable with capital) * to create a carbon market that is exposed to financialization (derivative products) * to distract attention of environmental activists away from environmental toxins (especially toxins that affect local areas which would affect profits) * to create a barrier of entry for competing technologies, systems, & communities into the markets * to create a movement of concerned people who believe in an ideology that they control With the excessive fear re: CO2 emissions, the population is more willing to accept suggested measures (by these same hegemonic entities), to "solve" (via carbon markets) the "problem". Perception is reality...

smadge 8y ago
While I agree that the fossil fuel industry is positioning itself to prosper in a post fossil fuel economy, I don’t believe that it is completely manufacturing the concern over climate change.
- briantakita 8y ago
  That's fine & I agree that the climate is changing. If you don't believe me re: the fossil fuel industry appropriating the "climate change" movement, look at who funds various studies & organizations that are major players in the dissemination of climate change science. There's a grain of truth, but these organizations seek to "get ahead of the story" so it can influence the population with a narrative of it's choosing. Are you aware of the "grand solar minimum" which has recently begun? The sun will be emitting less heat, which will result in Earth having a lower temperature. Historically, this has led to significantly less crop yields, more ice, colder temperatures (especially is Europe and NE United States). Heightened warfare (due to resource limitation/competition) & Mass disease (e.g. the bubonic plague) are another consequence. Empires (e.g. Rome) have collapsed during periods of solar dimming, so be prepared; Winter is Coming! While there may be some anthropomorphic global warming from CO2, it will not offset the reduction of heat from the Sun. Also note the plethora of other anthropomorphic effects which are not talked about as often, such as Atmospheric Aerosol Injection & weather modification technologies. Atmospheric Aerosol Injection uses sulfates, which increase the flammability of forests due to being highly flammable & killing/weakening vegetation. There's plenty of f*ckery that is not reported...
  - henearkr 8y ago
    Here you are disproved: https://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=21 https://www.skepticalscience.com/graphics.php?g=21 You're welcome.
    - briantakita 8y ago
      Given the speculative, provincial, emerging, & cultural nature of scientific research, a scientific paper is not a proof. Given the aggressiveness & pervasiveness of the propaganda for certain teleological ideologies, I have my doubts as to the integrity of the processes & individuals involved. Time will tell what will happen. I'll place my bet & you can place your bet... The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted; but I'm sure a scientist will write it off as the "wierding of weather", "obviously" based mainly on anthropomorphic carbon emissions. So you can still "debunk", via appeal to authority, anybody who doubts the scientific hegemony with another scientific paper. An effective strategy, in the face of uncertainty & incomplete knowledge, is to track the possibility space & to keep optionality (and discussion) open. Good luck...
      - Oletros 8y ago
        So, if reality doesn't match my hypotesis I dissmiss reality? By the way: > The record snowfall in Europe does not care about the scientific paper you posted Confussing climate with weather?
        briantakita 8y ago
        I don't know, but probably, since we interpret reality through the lens of our biases & models we are exposed to/believe in. There's unknown unknowns in a complex phenomena re: climate. According to this video, a signature of CO2 warming is the surface & lower atmosphere warms while the upper atmosphere cools. https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 https://youtu.be/H5kejSYPD7U?t=90 Yet the current heavy snow storm in Europe is being caused by the splitting of the polar vortex, caused by warming in the stratosphere. https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-polar-vortex-has-fallen-apart-and-that-could-unleash-a-much https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2019-01-10-the-po... There's speculation that the acceleration of movement of the magnetic poles may have a factor, but it's a complex system... https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-vortex-weakening-colder-jan-2019 https://weather.com/forecast/national/news/2018-12-18-polar-... Point is, there are many complex dynamics at play & it's tempting to many people to subscribe a single factor as the primary cause. The reality is far more complex than what many of us would prefer, so many of us view reality with a simpler lens that we wish to see things with...