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> the size of the voting margin is somewhat irrelevant in a properly functioning democracy Literally, no. The size of the margin is a direct factor in many dem

> the size of the voting margin is somewhat irrelevant in a properly functioning democracy Literally, no. The size of the margin is a direct factor in many democratic processes and determines how resilient the decision is to subsequent challenge. Major, foundational changes are rarely decided by simple majorities in one event. > You don't get a re-do just because you didn't like the outcome. To say otherwise opens you up to the same kind of bullshit You just called some referendums "bullshit". Not very democratic of you. Follow-up referendums are totally valid democratic process, for example because sometimes you have widespread fraudulent claims that are later exposed to be lies. As the public becomes more educated, repolling to verify the public will is absolutely proper functioning and indeed and very essence of democracy.

m0zg 8y ago
Literally yes. Some elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes, and people accept the results. > You just called some referendums "bullshit" You're putting words in my mouth Cathy Newman style here.
- abalone 8y ago
  > Some elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes This is a basic "false equivalence" logical fallacy.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    I don't see any fallacy. I'm sure some elections in the UK are decided by a few votes as well, and they too are accepted. Why should a referendum be any different. The definition of a majority is 50% + 1 vote all over the world. The definition of majority vote is that majority decides the vote. And in this case nearly 1.3 _million_ more people voted to leave than to stay, not a few dozen.
    - abalone 8y ago
      You're saying the opposite though: you said some referendums are in fact "different", specifically "re-dos" are "bullshit". That is inconsistent with democratic principles that regularly subject major decisions to some additional levels of verification that it's what the people really want in the long run. Democratic procedures often build in some protections against short-term passions, fraud, poor turnouts, etc. and these verifications are scaled to match the magnitude of the decision. As others have noted, the kinds of "few dozen vote" contests you're talking about in the U.S. are themselves re-voted upon every few years. Follow-up referendums are perfectly consistent with democratic principles and happen all the time in the U.S. and elsewhere. Bypassing these kinds of verifications of the public will usually require supermajorities -- a direct contradiction of your claim that "the size of the voting margin is somewhat irrelevant in a properly functioning democracy." Also, nobody put words in your mouth. They are your direct quotes.
- scarmig 8y ago
  > elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes But Americans get a re-do every two years =)
- HuShifang 8y ago
  ...Pending the next election -- which generally occurs 2-6 years later. (Or, in the case of passed referendums, some future election, depending on when the modifying referendum makes it on the ballot.) Leaving the EU is far less readily reversible.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    Entering it too was not readily reversible. Why should exit be any different?
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  Some elections, ie, local elections on representation. Not major elections with constitutional implications. There is a reason that it takes 2/3 of the Senate to ratify international agreements, and 3/4 of the states to change the constitution. Brexit is a constitutional change.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    Then they wouldn't have joined in the first place. The "join" vote was 67/33 in favor, 2/3rds, but not 3/4ths. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_C...
    - hannasanarion 8y ago
      1. The United Kingdom does not have the same constitution as the United States. 2. 3/4 of the states are not the same as 3/4 of the people. 3. This does nothing to help your original point that all democracies make all decisions by simple majority.

m0zg 8y ago

Literally yes. Some elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes, and people accept the results. > You just called some referendums "bullshit" You're putting words in my mouth Cathy Newman style here.

abalone 8y ago
> Some elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes This is a basic "false equivalence" logical fallacy.
- m0zg 8y ago
  I don't see any fallacy. I'm sure some elections in the UK are decided by a few votes as well, and they too are accepted. Why should a referendum be any different. The definition of a majority is 50% + 1 vote all over the world. The definition of majority vote is that majority decides the vote. And in this case nearly 1.3 _million_ more people voted to leave than to stay, not a few dozen.
  - abalone 8y ago
    You're saying the opposite though: you said some referendums are in fact "different", specifically "re-dos" are "bullshit". That is inconsistent with democratic principles that regularly subject major decisions to some additional levels of verification that it's what the people really want in the long run. Democratic procedures often build in some protections against short-term passions, fraud, poor turnouts, etc. and these verifications are scaled to match the magnitude of the decision. As others have noted, the kinds of "few dozen vote" contests you're talking about in the U.S. are themselves re-voted upon every few years. Follow-up referendums are perfectly consistent with democratic principles and happen all the time in the U.S. and elsewhere. Bypassing these kinds of verifications of the public will usually require supermajorities -- a direct contradiction of your claim that "the size of the voting margin is somewhat irrelevant in a properly functioning democracy." Also, nobody put words in your mouth. They are your direct quotes.
scarmig 8y ago
> elections right here in the US are decided by as few as a dozen votes But Americans get a re-do every two years =)
HuShifang 8y ago
...Pending the next election -- which generally occurs 2-6 years later. (Or, in the case of passed referendums, some future election, depending on when the modifying referendum makes it on the ballot.) Leaving the EU is far less readily reversible.
- m0zg 8y ago
  Entering it too was not readily reversible. Why should exit be any different?
hannasanarion 8y ago
Some elections, ie, local elections on representation. Not major elections with constitutional implications. There is a reason that it takes 2/3 of the Senate to ratify international agreements, and 3/4 of the states to change the constitution. Brexit is a constitutional change.
- m0zg 8y ago
  Then they wouldn't have joined in the first place. The "join" vote was 67/33 in favor, 2/3rds, but not 3/4ths. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_Communities_membership_referendum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_United_Kingdom_European_C...
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    1. The United Kingdom does not have the same constitution as the United States. 2. 3/4 of the states are not the same as 3/4 of the people. 3. This does nothing to help your original point that all democracies make all decisions by simple majority.