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That "woman of great importance in the UK government" is the Prime Minister. For the purpose of this discussion, and until she's voted out, she is the most impo

That "woman of great importance in the UK government" is the Prime Minister. For the purpose of this discussion, and until she's voted out, she is the most important person in the United Kingdom.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago
10-4. Why is she being resoundedly disapproved upon by her own gov't? Presumably, the same gov't that put forth this vote? At least some significant margin of politicians must have wanted this vote knowing that 'yes' is on the table. Where are they?
- deleted 8y ago
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- deleted 8y ago
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- ErrantX 8y ago
  The problem is that the politics are not partisan and instead divide the main parties. It would be similar to half the republicans and half the democrats agreeing on a key policy & fundamentally disagreeing with the other half of their respective parties. (it's actually even worse than that because there are at least 3 main positions [hard exit, soft exit, no exit] which divide the two main parties, meaning nothing really has a clear majority). The way the UK government works is: from the majority party a government of ministers is formed from their group of MPs. By convention individual MPs in this government (called front-benchers) have a cohesive support for the overall government policy (if they disagree with the policy or vote against it then by convention they have to resign). Anyone from the ruling party NOT on the front-bench can (and often will) vote against the government. Brexit has been insanely divisive. Internally, the ruling Convservative party have at least 4 different positions, including the official government one. Many front-benchers have resigned. Fundamentally the problem is this; people voted for Brexit. But only just. So really nearly half the population doesn't want it. It was simple to answer a simple yes/no question. But exiting is a hugely complex question whereby it is nearly impossible to negotiate a compromise that works for everyone.
  - balabaster 8y ago
    Also a rather large portion of the population didn't take the vote seriously. When it came out that it was a complete clusterfuck, those voters who either voted just to stick it to the man or didn't bother to vote are now rightly panicking that this train wreck that we can't look away from is like the asteroid that hit the Yucatan peninsula and killed off the dinosaurs and there's fuck all we can do about it. Oh well, you live and learn.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  Because she promised a submarine made of cheese, and delivered a submarine made of cheese, and the people who demanded a submarine made of cheese are mad that it doesn't taste good enough or dive deep enough. There is no such thing as a favorable brexit deal. Britain is already in the most favorable position possible with regards to EU relations: they have all of the benefits of EU membership, but with a special deal that means they're exempted from some of the membership dues, and they can have their own immigration policy and their own money. Britain has a more beneficial position in the EU than any other country in the world, in or out. There is absolutely no way that the EU is going to let them leave and keep most of the benefits of membership. The hardliners want to get everything and give nothing, and surprise surprise, the EU wasn't going to let them have everything in exchange for nothing, so the hardliners hate it, and everybody else hates it because it was a stupid idea in the first place.
- peteretep 8y ago
  > Why is she being resoundedly disapproved upon by her own gov't? Because "Prime Minister" is not the head of state, so there's little respect for the position. Her position is equivalent to Speaker of The House in the US, only in a system where The House is also the Executive.
arethuza 8y ago
"she is the most important person in the United Kingdom." I believe members of the UK armed forces would probably dispute that.
- balabaster 8y ago
  Who are governed ultimately by the Prime Minister. So they do what she tells them to, ultimately making her the most important person.
  - arethuza 8y ago
    Actually, I believe the armed forces of the UK actually take an oath of allegiance to the ruling monarch rather than to the state/government - I did think this didn't mean very much but I have raised the point with a serving army officer and he was rather insistent that they take it seriously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)#Armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kin...
    - balabaster 8y ago
      Interesting, thanks
    - cm2187 8y ago
      The wikipedia article [1] suggests that this is formal only and that the army is under the control of the parliament, which was also my understanding. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army
      - arethuza 8y ago
        Lets just say that it's a formality that I hope never gets put to the test :-|
        cm2187 8y ago

That "woman of great importance in the UK government" is the Prime Minister. For the purpose of this discussion, and until she's voted out, she is the most important person in the United Kingdom.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago

10-4. Why is she being resoundedly disapproved upon by her own gov't? Presumably, the same gov't that put forth this vote? At least some significant margin of politicians must have wanted this vote knowing that 'yes' is on the table. Where are they?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ErrantX 8y ago
The problem is that the politics are not partisan and instead divide the main parties. It would be similar to half the republicans and half the democrats agreeing on a key policy & fundamentally disagreeing with the other half of their respective parties. (it's actually even worse than that because there are at least 3 main positions [hard exit, soft exit, no exit] which divide the two main parties, meaning nothing really has a clear majority). The way the UK government works is: from the majority party a government of ministers is formed from their group of MPs. By convention individual MPs in this government (called front-benchers) have a cohesive support for the overall government policy (if they disagree with the policy or vote against it then by convention they have to resign). Anyone from the ruling party NOT on the front-bench can (and often will) vote against the government. Brexit has been insanely divisive. Internally, the ruling Convservative party have at least 4 different positions, including the official government one. Many front-benchers have resigned. Fundamentally the problem is this; people voted for Brexit. But only just. So really nearly half the population doesn't want it. It was simple to answer a simple yes/no question. But exiting is a hugely complex question whereby it is nearly impossible to negotiate a compromise that works for everyone.
- balabaster 8y ago
  Also a rather large portion of the population didn't take the vote seriously. When it came out that it was a complete clusterfuck, those voters who either voted just to stick it to the man or didn't bother to vote are now rightly panicking that this train wreck that we can't look away from is like the asteroid that hit the Yucatan peninsula and killed off the dinosaurs and there's fuck all we can do about it. Oh well, you live and learn.
hannasanarion 8y ago
Because she promised a submarine made of cheese, and delivered a submarine made of cheese, and the people who demanded a submarine made of cheese are mad that it doesn't taste good enough or dive deep enough. There is no such thing as a favorable brexit deal. Britain is already in the most favorable position possible with regards to EU relations: they have all of the benefits of EU membership, but with a special deal that means they're exempted from some of the membership dues, and they can have their own immigration policy and their own money. Britain has a more beneficial position in the EU than any other country in the world, in or out. There is absolutely no way that the EU is going to let them leave and keep most of the benefits of membership. The hardliners want to get everything and give nothing, and surprise surprise, the EU wasn't going to let them have everything in exchange for nothing, so the hardliners hate it, and everybody else hates it because it was a stupid idea in the first place.
peteretep 8y ago
> Why is she being resoundedly disapproved upon by her own gov't? Because "Prime Minister" is not the head of state, so there's little respect for the position. Her position is equivalent to Speaker of The House in the US, only in a system where The House is also the Executive.

arethuza 8y ago

"she is the most important person in the United Kingdom." I believe members of the UK armed forces would probably dispute that.

balabaster 8y ago
Who are governed ultimately by the Prime Minister. So they do what she tells them to, ultimately making her the most important person.
- arethuza 8y ago
  Actually, I believe the armed forces of the UK actually take an oath of allegiance to the ruling monarch rather than to the state/government - I did think this didn't mean very much but I have raised the point with a serving army officer and he was rather insistent that they take it seriously: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kingdom)#Armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_Kin...
  - balabaster 8y ago
    Interesting, thanks
  - cm2187 8y ago
    The wikipedia article [1] suggests that this is formal only and that the army is under the control of the parliament, which was also my understanding. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Army
    - arethuza 8y ago
      Lets just say that it's a formality that I hope never gets put to the test :-|
      - cm2187 8y ago