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Nigel Farage is a media-created bogey man, a hack to the system of “equal time”. He isn’t actually representative of anyone, even his own useless party, as poll

Nigel Farage is a media-created bogey man, a hack to the system of “equal time”. He isn’t actually representative of anyone, even his own useless party, as polls and election results have consistently shown.

ceejayoz 8y ago
He was an MP, is still a MEP, and cofounded a party that once commanded "major party" status and nearly 20% of the vote in 2014. He's clearly representing some folks.
- simonbyrne 8y ago
  He has never been an MP.
  - Zhyl 8y ago
    There also wasn't an election in 2014. His party won 1 seat in 2015 and got 12.6% of the total vote. 12.6% is really high to be getting only 1 seat, but it definitely isn't 20%.
    - mattmanser 8y ago
      He's talking about the MEP elections. It's been very easy to dismiss UKIP's parliamentary holding only because the UK is first past the post, had it been more representative these last few decades, we probably wouldn't be in this mess. Instead we've had two decades of Tory and Labour governments effectively sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalalalalaaaa, we can't hear you, growth is king" when anyone mentioned the word immigration. Or talking about lower immigration targets, while at the same time the treasury was producing budget forecasts based on mass immigration continuing.
      - jimnotgym 8y ago
        I have to agree that it is bizarre that the two main parties were talking all about growth while failing to acknowledge the role immigration was playing in that growth, and especially to the demographics of the workforce. Perhaps if they had been more upfront, discussing how (in a country where we are not so far away from having more retired people than workers), letting more young workers in is playing an important role in the economy. Then you hear that Teresa May herself suppressed reports that stated that the average immigrant was contributing more in terms of taxation (net) than the average Brit (for the demographic reasons above). This suggests that they were not just 'sticking their fingers in their ears', they were actively promoting an anti-immigrant agenda.
        mattmanser 8y ago
        Well, I find that's obviously a very biased type of report based on a flawed premise. An economic migrant will eventually have kids and grow old, so in 40 years time the 'average' migrant won't be contributing more. It's just that they are right now. Or, perhaps worse, they'll take a large proportion of their total earnings out of the UK in a decade and move back home. Anyway, putting aside that, they knew they couldn't release reports like that because they had to pretend to be anti-immigration. So rather than having the conversation which was vitally necessary to reduce anti-immigration feelings, they were secretly pro-immigration, and even saw it as a necessity, so they just suppressed it all.
        jimnotgym 8y ago
        > Because that's obviously a very biased type of report based on a flawed premise. Why must it have been? Could it not have been a reasoned report by a renowned expert in demographics? Your statement that anything pro-immigration is automatically propaganda is ridiculous, and reminds me of Gove's "we have all had enough of experts" guff. > An economic migrant will eventually have kids Who will join the workforce...in fact this is the only group who have an increasing birth rate in Britain. > Or, perhaps worse, they'll take a large proportion of their total earnings out of the UK in a decade and move back home. Its kind of hard to take the tax you paid and the profits you earned your employer back home.
- johanek 8y ago
  He's never been a MP, UKIP has never been considered a "major party" (how is this even defined?), there was no election in 2014, UKIP won 12.6% in 2015. He's clearly representing some people but your facts are way off.
  - ceejayoz 8y ago
    Sorry, I was mistaken on the MP front. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_Kingdom_local_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_Kingdom_local_elec... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_elect... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party#Entering_mainstream_politics:_2014%E2%80%9316 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party#Entering... "In March 2014, Ofcom awarded UKIP "major party status"." https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2015/major-parties-consultation https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-rele... "Ofcom’s initial view is that UKIP may qualify for major party status in England and Wales for the General Election and English local elections on 7 May 2015." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31906154 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31906154 "Ofcom says UKIP, but not Greens, are 'major party'"
    - johanek 8y ago
      That's very interesting about the official "major party status", thanks for sharing that. I was only considering General Elections, which are a fairer representation of a parties vote share (despite FPTP) as not all councils vote in local elections each year.
  - hardlianotion 8y ago
    As an electoral force, UKIP were very successful in European elections. It is reasonable to say that they were a major consideration in deciding to call the referendum.
  - growlist 8y ago
    Worth remembering the dirty tricks employed against him: 'The election of a Conservative MP could have been declared void if he had filed accurate returns that showed he had overspent on his campaign to beat Nigel Farage, a court has heard. Craig Mackinlay, an accountant, stands accused along with his election agent and a party official of deliberately submitting “woefully inaccurate” expenditure returns.'

ceejayoz 8y ago

He was an MP, is still a MEP, and cofounded a party that once commanded "major party" status and nearly 20% of the vote in 2014. He's clearly representing some folks.

simonbyrne 8y ago
He has never been an MP.
- Zhyl 8y ago
  There also wasn't an election in 2014. His party won 1 seat in 2015 and got 12.6% of the total vote. 12.6% is really high to be getting only 1 seat, but it definitely isn't 20%.
  - mattmanser 8y ago
    He's talking about the MEP elections. It's been very easy to dismiss UKIP's parliamentary holding only because the UK is first past the post, had it been more representative these last few decades, we probably wouldn't be in this mess. Instead we've had two decades of Tory and Labour governments effectively sticking their fingers in their ears and going "lalalalalaaaa, we can't hear you, growth is king" when anyone mentioned the word immigration. Or talking about lower immigration targets, while at the same time the treasury was producing budget forecasts based on mass immigration continuing.
    - jimnotgym 8y ago
      I have to agree that it is bizarre that the two main parties were talking all about growth while failing to acknowledge the role immigration was playing in that growth, and especially to the demographics of the workforce. Perhaps if they had been more upfront, discussing how (in a country where we are not so far away from having more retired people than workers), letting more young workers in is playing an important role in the economy. Then you hear that Teresa May herself suppressed reports that stated that the average immigrant was contributing more in terms of taxation (net) than the average Brit (for the demographic reasons above). This suggests that they were not just 'sticking their fingers in their ears', they were actively promoting an anti-immigrant agenda.
      - mattmanser 8y ago
        Well, I find that's obviously a very biased type of report based on a flawed premise. An economic migrant will eventually have kids and grow old, so in 40 years time the 'average' migrant won't be contributing more. It's just that they are right now. Or, perhaps worse, they'll take a large proportion of their total earnings out of the UK in a decade and move back home. Anyway, putting aside that, they knew they couldn't release reports like that because they had to pretend to be anti-immigration. So rather than having the conversation which was vitally necessary to reduce anti-immigration feelings, they were secretly pro-immigration, and even saw it as a necessity, so they just suppressed it all.
        jimnotgym 8y ago
        > Because that's obviously a very biased type of report based on a flawed premise. Why must it have been? Could it not have been a reasoned report by a renowned expert in demographics? Your statement that anything pro-immigration is automatically propaganda is ridiculous, and reminds me of Gove's "we have all had enough of experts" guff. > An economic migrant will eventually have kids Who will join the workforce...in fact this is the only group who have an increasing birth rate in Britain. > Or, perhaps worse, they'll take a large proportion of their total earnings out of the UK in a decade and move back home. Its kind of hard to take the tax you paid and the profits you earned your employer back home.
johanek 8y ago
He's never been a MP, UKIP has never been considered a "major party" (how is this even defined?), there was no election in 2014, UKIP won 12.6% in 2015. He's clearly representing some people but your facts are way off.
- ceejayoz 8y ago
  Sorry, I was mistaken on the MP front. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_Kingdom_local_elections https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_United_Kingdom_local_elec... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_election_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_European_Parliament_elect... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party#Entering_mainstream_politics:_2014%E2%80%9316 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_Independence_Party#Entering... "In March 2014, Ofcom awarded UKIP "major party status"." https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-releases/2015/major-parties-consultation https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/media/media-rele... "Ofcom’s initial view is that UKIP may qualify for major party status in England and Wales for the General Election and English local elections on 7 May 2015." https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31906154 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-31906154 "Ofcom says UKIP, but not Greens, are 'major party'"
  - johanek 8y ago
    That's very interesting about the official "major party status", thanks for sharing that. I was only considering General Elections, which are a fairer representation of a parties vote share (despite FPTP) as not all councils vote in local elections each year.
- hardlianotion 8y ago
  As an electoral force, UKIP were very successful in European elections. It is reasonable to say that they were a major consideration in deciding to call the referendum.
- growlist 8y ago
  Worth remembering the dirty tricks employed against him: 'The election of a Conservative MP could have been declared void if he had filed accurate returns that showed he had overspent on his campaign to beat Nigel Farage, a court has heard. Craig Mackinlay, an accountant, stands accused along with his election agent and a party official of deliberately submitting “woefully inaccurate” expenditure returns.'