6 ms·

Are they or do you just believe that because of what you think you know about the difference between the two companies?

by taf2 8y ago

ad-hominem 8y ago
Apple's business model is not selling your data for advertisements. They make their money the old-fashioned way - charging customers for their product (hardware).
Kye 8y ago
I'm currently on my first iPhone. They spell out what they do with data in just about every app and setting. There's an almost annoying number of modals related to privacy and general control of data. Maybe it's all for show, but they seem to take privacy seriously.
foepys 8y ago
Afaik Apple went above and beyond to make sure their original iPhone fingerprint sensor never leaked the fingerprint to any app or even the OS itself. Android always just did whatever with the print. If that's the same philosophy now, Apple is definitely better than Google in terms of privacy. Full disclosure: I own an Android device and no Apple product except an iPod from 2009 or so.
- cronix 8y ago
  Is it really private though if it's all being collected, encryption and all, to be decrypted at a future date when the technology is available? All data on the net is captured by the NSA and stored at multiple data centers. One's in Utah. No company can really claim privacy if their product touches the internet since all of the pipes are tapped. It's all semantics. Maybe saying "we don't directly..." or "we don't make it easy..." would be more accurate. There is no privacy on the net, period. It's temporary privacy in the immediate present at best. 5 years from now? They might be able to decrypt everything from the last 10 years that they already have stored. It's guaranteed at some point. 6 years ago Snowden also revealed Apple was on board with the data collection. They are lying, and people don't care and go along with the show. https://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/21/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-refuses-to-use-apples-iphone-over-spying-concerns---report https://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/21/nsa-leaker-edward...
  - vengefulduck 8y ago
    Except they don’t send it over the internet and it never leaves the device
    - cronix 8y ago
      My larger point was about all of the data, not biometrics specifically. Great, your fingerprint never left the device. Everything else does, which is probably way more personal data than just a fingerprint. Your fingerprint really does me no good unless I want to try to frame you for a crime, or want to get into your specific device or other thing that requires biometrics (maybe your work). Your data, I can make use of a lot of if I were criminally inclined. Your credit card numbers, your ssn, your investment accounts, your pics for making false ID's, passwords, or any other data that has ever flowed from your device. You'd have to be pretty sophisticated to be able to make use of someones fingerprints, while basically anyone could use your credit card number. Which is more valuable and larger vector for exploit?
      - mlindner 8y ago
        None of the data you describe ever leaves the device unless you opt in to syncing it to iCloud (which is not on by default). The FaceID/Fingerprint never leaves the device and if you don't enable iCloud syncing of the other data off the device the data is unreachable with keys kept on the device.
  - admax88q 8y ago
    Its reasonable to think things encrypted today with good methodologies are likely to remain secure forever. NSA can't change the fundamental laws of the universe. While cryptology and mathematics is constantly advancing, there hasn't been a fundamental breakage of a block cipher in ages, nor has any evidence emerged to suggest the fundamentals of RSA will be broken. Computing power alone isn't enough to break todays strong cryptography, and its certainly possible that the underlying math is a constant of the universe. Edit: Not to mention the snowden leaks suggests that the NSA spends most of their effort subverting implementations rather than the fundamental mathematics.
SEJeff 8y ago
Because Tim Cook, as a homosexual, has teared up when speaking about human rights abuses of homosexual under repressive regimes, and how as the CEO of apple, he will do anything within his power to ensure your data stays safe on apple infra / hw because he personally thinks about it. Can't remember the interview, but it was quite touching actually. He's very clear in shareholder calls / letters and in their privacy policy. So much so that he even calls out the competition[1] for doing it as Apple does not. From an economics standpoint, Apple doesn't make money on your data. They sell you overpriced but quite sophisticated hardware and became one of the most valuable companies in the world doing this. That and he advocates for a US equivalent of the GPDR[2] which absolutely and directly would impact the bottom line of companies like Google and Facebook. Then there is Apple's official privacy policy, where they are very explicit that they don't gather personal information to sell to advertisers. In much of the non-US world, saying that and not following that is blatantly illegal. [1] http://time.com/5433499/tim-cook-apple-data-privacy/ http://time.com/5433499/tim-cook-apple-data-privacy/ [2] https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18017842/tim-cook-data-privacy-laws-us-speech-brussels https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18017842/tim-cook-data-p... [3] https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/
- Kye 8y ago
  "Homosexual" is not strictly offensive, but does mark you as potentially holding regressive views. It's easy enough to see from context that you're probably okay, but you can't always count on context. You can just say gay. -- Signed, The Gays
  - SEJeff 8y ago
    I just assumed it was the PC version, like African American. No offense meant -- Signed, totally a friend of the Gays
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - Aloha 8y ago
anyfoo 8y ago
It's a fair question. For starters, comparing the business models, and how iOS implements privacy relevant aspects vs. how Android does so, might lead to reasonable assumptions.
mises 8y ago
It is in the best financial interests of Apple to protect user data. Mr. Cook has a fiduciary responsibility to do so.
jdietrich 8y ago
Apple are primarily a hardware company. They make money on the sale of devices. They also make some money as a marketplace for apps and media. They have no significant revenue from data harvesting or advertising sales. Google are an advertising company. The overwhelming majority of their revenue is from targeted advertising. Their ability to harvest user data is the primary factor affecting their bottom line. For Apple, privacy is a no-brainer. It doesn't harm either of their primary revenue streams and it gives them a substantial point of differentiation against their main competitor. Apple have an ongoing commercial imperative to improve the privacy of their products and services; Google have an ongoing commercial imperative to the contrary.
- izacus 8y ago
  They also make a lot of money in China where betraying their users privacy was required to enter. And that was almost the same week then their CEO, Tim Cook, told on camera that privacy is "fundamental human right". I guess he doesn't consider Chinese people human.
  - specialist 8y ago
    What would you have done?
    - cromwellian 8y ago
      How about withdrawl, like Google did?

Are they or do you just believe that because of what you think you know about the difference between the two companies?

by taf2 8y ago

Are they or do you just believe that because of what you think you know about the difference between the two companies?

Apple's business model is not selling your data for advertisements. They make their money the old-fashioned way - charging customers for their product (hardware).

Kye 8y ago

I'm currently on my first iPhone. They spell out what they do with data in just about every app and setting. There's an almost annoying number of modals related to privacy and general control of data. Maybe it's all for show, but they seem to take privacy seriously.

foepys 8y ago

Afaik Apple went above and beyond to make sure their original iPhone fingerprint sensor never leaked the fingerprint to any app or even the OS itself. Android always just did whatever with the print. If that's the same philosophy now, Apple is definitely better than Google in terms of privacy. Full disclosure: I own an Android device and no Apple product except an iPod from 2009 or so.

cronix 8y ago
Is it really private though if it's all being collected, encryption and all, to be decrypted at a future date when the technology is available? All data on the net is captured by the NSA and stored at multiple data centers. One's in Utah. No company can really claim privacy if their product touches the internet since all of the pipes are tapped. It's all semantics. Maybe saying "we don't directly..." or "we don't make it easy..." would be more accurate. There is no privacy on the net, period. It's temporary privacy in the immediate present at best. 5 years from now? They might be able to decrypt everything from the last 10 years that they already have stored. It's guaranteed at some point. 6 years ago Snowden also revealed Apple was on board with the data collection. They are lying, and people don't care and go along with the show. https://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/21/nsa-leaker-edward-snowden-refuses-to-use-apples-iphone-over-spying-concerns---report https://appleinsider.com/articles/15/01/21/nsa-leaker-edward...
- vengefulduck 8y ago
  Except they don’t send it over the internet and it never leaves the device
  - cronix 8y ago
    My larger point was about all of the data, not biometrics specifically. Great, your fingerprint never left the device. Everything else does, which is probably way more personal data than just a fingerprint. Your fingerprint really does me no good unless I want to try to frame you for a crime, or want to get into your specific device or other thing that requires biometrics (maybe your work). Your data, I can make use of a lot of if I were criminally inclined. Your credit card numbers, your ssn, your investment accounts, your pics for making false ID's, passwords, or any other data that has ever flowed from your device. You'd have to be pretty sophisticated to be able to make use of someones fingerprints, while basically anyone could use your credit card number. Which is more valuable and larger vector for exploit?
    - mlindner 8y ago
      None of the data you describe ever leaves the device unless you opt in to syncing it to iCloud (which is not on by default). The FaceID/Fingerprint never leaves the device and if you don't enable iCloud syncing of the other data off the device the data is unreachable with keys kept on the device.
- admax88q 8y ago
  Its reasonable to think things encrypted today with good methodologies are likely to remain secure forever. NSA can't change the fundamental laws of the universe. While cryptology and mathematics is constantly advancing, there hasn't been a fundamental breakage of a block cipher in ages, nor has any evidence emerged to suggest the fundamentals of RSA will be broken. Computing power alone isn't enough to break todays strong cryptography, and its certainly possible that the underlying math is a constant of the universe. Edit: Not to mention the snowden leaks suggests that the NSA spends most of their effort subverting implementations rather than the fundamental mathematics.

SEJeff 8y ago

Because Tim Cook, as a homosexual, has teared up when speaking about human rights abuses of homosexual under repressive regimes, and how as the CEO of apple, he will do anything within his power to ensure your data stays safe on apple infra / hw because he personally thinks about it. Can't remember the interview, but it was quite touching actually. He's very clear in shareholder calls / letters and in their privacy policy. So much so that he even calls out the competition[1] for doing it as Apple does not. From an economics standpoint, Apple doesn't make money on your data. They sell you overpriced but quite sophisticated hardware and became one of the most valuable companies in the world doing this. That and he advocates for a US equivalent of the GPDR[2] which absolutely and directly would impact the bottom line of companies like Google and Facebook. Then there is Apple's official privacy policy, where they are very explicit that they don't gather personal information to sell to advertisers. In much of the non-US world, saying that and not following that is blatantly illegal. [1] http://time.com/5433499/tim-cook-apple-data-privacy/ http://time.com/5433499/tim-cook-apple-data-privacy/ [2] https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18017842/tim-cook-data-privacy-laws-us-speech-brussels https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18017842/tim-cook-data-p... [3] https://www.apple.com/privacy/ https://www.apple.com/privacy/

Kye 8y ago
"Homosexual" is not strictly offensive, but does mark you as potentially holding regressive views. It's easy enough to see from context that you're probably okay, but you can't always count on context. You can just say gay. -- Signed, The Gays
- SEJeff 8y ago
  I just assumed it was the PC version, like African American. No offense meant -- Signed, totally a friend of the Gays
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Aloha 8y ago

anyfoo 8y ago

It's a fair question. For starters, comparing the business models, and how iOS implements privacy relevant aspects vs. how Android does so, might lead to reasonable assumptions.

mises 8y ago

It is in the best financial interests of Apple to protect user data. Mr. Cook has a fiduciary responsibility to do so.

jdietrich 8y ago

Apple are primarily a hardware company. They make money on the sale of devices. They also make some money as a marketplace for apps and media. They have no significant revenue from data harvesting or advertising sales. Google are an advertising company. The overwhelming majority of their revenue is from targeted advertising. Their ability to harvest user data is the primary factor affecting their bottom line. For Apple, privacy is a no-brainer. It doesn't harm either of their primary revenue streams and it gives them a substantial point of differentiation against their main competitor. Apple have an ongoing commercial imperative to improve the privacy of their products and services; Google have an ongoing commercial imperative to the contrary.

izacus 8y ago
They also make a lot of money in China where betraying their users privacy was required to enter. And that was almost the same week then their CEO, Tim Cook, told on camera that privacy is "fundamental human right". I guess he doesn't consider Chinese people human.
- specialist 8y ago
  What would you have done?
  - cromwellian 8y ago
    How about withdrawl, like Google did?