6 ms·

I will sell you the puts myself. You're ignoring a massive market for vacation rentals outside of major metropolitan areas that AirBnB has conquered from craigs

I will sell you the puts myself. You're ignoring a massive market for vacation rentals outside of major metropolitan areas that AirBnB has conquered from craigslist. The risk for regulation has passed as citizens see AirBnB as an accepted reality. Hotels aren't happy, but rightfully see AirBnB as a competitor.

jedberg 8y ago
> The risk for regulation has passed as citizens see AirBnB as an accepted reality. Hotels aren't happy, but rightfully see AirBnB as a competitor. I agree with your overall, but I'm not so sure I agree with this part. South Lake Tahoe just passed a voter initiative in November that bans AirBnB (and VRBO) except for a few places right next to the major hotels. It was, not surprisingly, heavily supported by the major hotels.
- zaroth 8y ago
  I was just reading about this. Looks like the measure barely squeaked by (less than 1 percent margin) and parts of it are on hold pending a lawsuit. I’m very conflicted about these types of bans. I have an apartment which I share with extended family, and we share the costs. Technically the way these bans are written would prevent us from doing that without somehow getting everyone’s name of the lease which would not be practical. I wish that people would fine heavily for actual bad behavior, and let fair economic arrangements between respectful parties happen. But I also understand that enforcement is very difficult, and most people are assholes.
- the_watcher 8y ago
  South Lake Tahoe is exactly the kind of market that OP isn't talking about (if I'm reading it correctly). There are tons of places where hotels simply aren't dominant. A good framing for me: If Airbnb were just looking to compete with hotels, this wouldn't be that exciting of a business, even if I knew they could survive. What's exciting about Airbnb is that they're looking to win in places that hotels aren't.
  - jedberg 8y ago
    Yes and no. There are three big hotels, but VRBO and AirBnB have been the dominant way to get housing in Tahoe forever, unless you're a gambler.
    - the_watcher 8y ago
      That can be true at the same time that "winning markets like South Lake Tahoe aren't the markets most critical to their growth" is true.
- _delirium 8y ago
  Washington DC also passed a partial ban a few months ago: https://dc.curbed.com/2018/11/15/18095658/dc-airbnb-regulations-short-term-rentals-council https://dc.curbed.com/2018/11/15/18095658/dc-airbnb-regulati... Under the new rules, you can only rent out your primary residence that you actually live in (not second homes/condos), and you can only do that for up to 90 days a year. That'll remove a pretty large percentage of the AirBnB inventory if it's enforced, since a lot of units on AirBnB are investment properties used purely to rent out, not anyone's primary residence.
- rconti 8y ago
  Pacific Grove, too. I was just staying in an AirBnB in PG in October. Signs in yards opposing "measure M" which turned out to be an initiative to "keep Pacific Grove a community"... which means no short-term rentals.
ohazi 8y ago
> vacation rentals outside of major metropolitan areas that AirBnB has conquered from craigslist. Last time I looked, many/most vacation rentals are multiply listed on VRBO, etc. Is there a reason to think that AirBnB is stickier than the other vacation rental sites?
- dominotw 8y ago
  > Is there a reason to think that AirBnB is stickier than the other vacation rental sites? 1. Has more volume of listings. 2. There are much cheaper options on airbnb than other sites like VBRO. 3. More trustworthy and better brand recognition.
- nostrademons 8y ago
  That hasn't been my experience. The other way around has - most VRBO listings are cross-listed on AirBnB, but AirBnB has a large superset of VRBO listings. As a guest, that makes me want to go to AirBnB over VRBO, because I know they'll always have selection, while if I go to VRBO I see largely the same listings I would've on AirBnB. My experience is that as long as you go to a tourist destination (like Hawaii, Croatia or Santa Cruz) VRBO is fine, but as soon as you start to go off the beaten track (like Northern Northern California past Redding, or suburban rentals near major cities, or rural college towns) AirBnB has much more selection. I just did a quick test at my alma mater (Amherst MA) and VRBO had 4 listings, AirBnb had 15. When your reputation score stays with the platform and is a major factor in who will host you, it behooves you to pick one platform for all your travel and stick with it, so getting the "long tail" of non-resort travel is a big coup for AirBnB.
  - yesiamyourdad 8y ago
    I believe that this is because historically VRBO had a listing fee but they didn't have a booking fee and didn't take a cut of the booking. AirBnB I believe takes only a cut of the booking, so it costs nothing to have a listing and you price your booking taking the cut in mind. The economics work better for a place that rents sporadically. HomeAway pivoted VRBO after the buyout to have both a listing fee and a booking fee.
- 8y ago

jedberg 8y ago

> The risk for regulation has passed as citizens see AirBnB as an accepted reality. Hotels aren't happy, but rightfully see AirBnB as a competitor. I agree with your overall, but I'm not so sure I agree with this part. South Lake Tahoe just passed a voter initiative in November that bans AirBnB (and VRBO) except for a few places right next to the major hotels. It was, not surprisingly, heavily supported by the major hotels.

zaroth 8y ago
I was just reading about this. Looks like the measure barely squeaked by (less than 1 percent margin) and parts of it are on hold pending a lawsuit. I’m very conflicted about these types of bans. I have an apartment which I share with extended family, and we share the costs. Technically the way these bans are written would prevent us from doing that without somehow getting everyone’s name of the lease which would not be practical. I wish that people would fine heavily for actual bad behavior, and let fair economic arrangements between respectful parties happen. But I also understand that enforcement is very difficult, and most people are assholes.
the_watcher 8y ago
South Lake Tahoe is exactly the kind of market that OP isn't talking about (if I'm reading it correctly). There are tons of places where hotels simply aren't dominant. A good framing for me: If Airbnb were just looking to compete with hotels, this wouldn't be that exciting of a business, even if I knew they could survive. What's exciting about Airbnb is that they're looking to win in places that hotels aren't.
- jedberg 8y ago
  Yes and no. There are three big hotels, but VRBO and AirBnB have been the dominant way to get housing in Tahoe forever, unless you're a gambler.
  - the_watcher 8y ago
    That can be true at the same time that "winning markets like South Lake Tahoe aren't the markets most critical to their growth" is true.
_delirium 8y ago
Washington DC also passed a partial ban a few months ago: https://dc.curbed.com/2018/11/15/18095658/dc-airbnb-regulations-short-term-rentals-council https://dc.curbed.com/2018/11/15/18095658/dc-airbnb-regulati... Under the new rules, you can only rent out your primary residence that you actually live in (not second homes/condos), and you can only do that for up to 90 days a year. That'll remove a pretty large percentage of the AirBnB inventory if it's enforced, since a lot of units on AirBnB are investment properties used purely to rent out, not anyone's primary residence.
rconti 8y ago
Pacific Grove, too. I was just staying in an AirBnB in PG in October. Signs in yards opposing "measure M" which turned out to be an initiative to "keep Pacific Grove a community"... which means no short-term rentals.

ohazi 8y ago

> vacation rentals outside of major metropolitan areas that AirBnB has conquered from craigslist. Last time I looked, many/most vacation rentals are multiply listed on VRBO, etc. Is there a reason to think that AirBnB is stickier than the other vacation rental sites?

dominotw 8y ago
> Is there a reason to think that AirBnB is stickier than the other vacation rental sites? 1. Has more volume of listings. 2. There are much cheaper options on airbnb than other sites like VBRO. 3. More trustworthy and better brand recognition.
nostrademons 8y ago
That hasn't been my experience. The other way around has - most VRBO listings are cross-listed on AirBnB, but AirBnB has a large superset of VRBO listings. As a guest, that makes me want to go to AirBnB over VRBO, because I know they'll always have selection, while if I go to VRBO I see largely the same listings I would've on AirBnB. My experience is that as long as you go to a tourist destination (like Hawaii, Croatia or Santa Cruz) VRBO is fine, but as soon as you start to go off the beaten track (like Northern Northern California past Redding, or suburban rentals near major cities, or rural college towns) AirBnB has much more selection. I just did a quick test at my alma mater (Amherst MA) and VRBO had 4 listings, AirBnb had 15. When your reputation score stays with the platform and is a major factor in who will host you, it behooves you to pick one platform for all your travel and stick with it, so getting the "long tail" of non-resort travel is a big coup for AirBnB.
- yesiamyourdad 8y ago
  I believe that this is because historically VRBO had a listing fee but they didn't have a booking fee and didn't take a cut of the booking. AirBnB I believe takes only a cut of the booking, so it costs nothing to have a listing and you price your booking taking the cut in mind. The economics work better for a place that rents sporadically. HomeAway pivoted VRBO after the buyout to have both a listing fee and a booking fee.
8y ago