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Your reasons for why “Agile” isn’t working is the same for why “devops” isn’t working - the enterprise refuses to let go of fundamental practices and assumption

Your reasons for why “Agile” isn’t working is the same for why “devops” isn’t working - the enterprise refuses to let go of fundamental practices and assumptions of Taylor work models where planning is centralized by a manager caste and concerns for individual contributors are mostly cast aside (Deming’s approach is the opposite and is what the Japanese auto makers used to improve quality and dominate the US auto market in a matter of a decade). Furthermore, a great deal of the places in a crisis (seriously, why go through an expensive transformation if you’re fine?) have lost most of their software craft and are culturally bankrupt to do much more than manage things and watch them fail. Execution on anything besides sales is missing completely while an offshore team or a bunch of engineers too tired / hungry / captive to protest their conditions are dragged through it all. Most of the Agile coaches I think know this and just want their cash before these places sink (takes maybe 15 years, enough time for a decently long career), and if maybe one of these places is saved they can feel good. But really, I think the situation isn’t too different from what Mitt Romney’s private equity firm was accused of doing for decades (and anyone else in PE for that matter).

outworlder 8y ago
> Your reasons for why “Agile” isn’t working is the same for why “devops” isn’t working Thank you. This brightens my day. Far too many companies want to appear "up-to-date" with the "industry standard", so they rename their ops team as devops and call it a day. Maybe add some automation-focused reqs to justify the change. Ops with some ansible and terraform sprinkled on top are still ops. Just call it ops.
- nineteen999 8y ago
  As far as industry snake oil terms go, at least "agile" is a dictionary word. "Devops" is merely a portmanteau of two abbreviations.
- devonkim 8y ago
  Having tried to hire for a team that is focused on operations there’s a huge world out there full of engineers that have hid their head in the sand about configuration management, infrastructure as code, etc. They may have managed a lot of network devices, SANs, AD and Exchange clusters, etc. But devops really started within the software community fundamentally rather than the modern sysadmin one and there’s a lot of distinct differences in mentality that shows. This doesn’t mean one is better than another but if tou’re in the technology field it is imperative that you stay up to date on what’s going on even slightly adjacent to our respective fields. This has been lost on a lot of otherwise excellent sysadmins though, and for that reason alone I have to decline good engineers - attitude and perspective over a long career being unsuitable for the company I’m hiring for.
  - outworlder 8y ago
    > But devops really started within the software community fundamentally rather than the modern sysadmin one and there’s a lot of distinct differences in mentality that shows. That is true. > and for that reason alone I have to decline good engineers Ultimately, that's the right call. Once certain a way of thinking solidifies, it is very hard to change.

outworlder 8y ago

> Your reasons for why “Agile” isn’t working is the same for why “devops” isn’t working Thank you. This brightens my day. Far too many companies want to appear "up-to-date" with the "industry standard", so they rename their ops team as devops and call it a day. Maybe add some automation-focused reqs to justify the change. Ops with some ansible and terraform sprinkled on top are still ops. Just call it ops.

nineteen999 8y ago
As far as industry snake oil terms go, at least "agile" is a dictionary word. "Devops" is merely a portmanteau of two abbreviations.
devonkim 8y ago
Having tried to hire for a team that is focused on operations there’s a huge world out there full of engineers that have hid their head in the sand about configuration management, infrastructure as code, etc. They may have managed a lot of network devices, SANs, AD and Exchange clusters, etc. But devops really started within the software community fundamentally rather than the modern sysadmin one and there’s a lot of distinct differences in mentality that shows. This doesn’t mean one is better than another but if tou’re in the technology field it is imperative that you stay up to date on what’s going on even slightly adjacent to our respective fields. This has been lost on a lot of otherwise excellent sysadmins though, and for that reason alone I have to decline good engineers - attitude and perspective over a long career being unsuitable for the company I’m hiring for.
- outworlder 8y ago
  > But devops really started within the software community fundamentally rather than the modern sysadmin one and there’s a lot of distinct differences in mentality that shows. That is true. > and for that reason alone I have to decline good engineers Ultimately, that's the right call. Once certain a way of thinking solidifies, it is very hard to change.