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It was interesting to hear the government's side of the story. Yet again I'm convinced that the most proficient computer security experts are way outside the go

It was interesting to hear the government's side of the story. Yet again I'm convinced that the most proficient computer security experts are way outside the government. Gonzalez doesn't seem exceptionally competent. I mean the only reason he got caught was because he used a bunch of cloned debit cards in front of a cop. Yet for several years he managed to inform for the Secret Service and keep his crimes hidden. I'm not sure the Secret Service realizes what message they're sending to criminals. Sure they punished Gonzalez for his betrayal, but they basically advertised, "If you become an informant, you risk getting a much much worse sentence."

dasil003 16y ago
> but they basically advertised, "If you become an informant, you risk getting a much much worse sentence." Uh, you mean if you not only continue your crime, but escalate it to unprecedented levels after agreeing to be an informant? I think that pretty much goes without saying.
- AngryParsley 16y ago
  Gonzalez's actions as an informant still reduced the total amount of credit card fraud. If he hadn't informed, his associates would have committed more crime and the Secret Service probably wouldn't have caught as many of them as quickly as they did. Assuming the Secret Service's goal is to reduce fraud, they should prefer informants who commit crimes to no informants at all.
  - dasil003 16y ago
    > Gonzalez's actions as an informant still reduced the total amount of credit card fraud. Did they?
    - AngryParsley 16y ago
      Almost certainly. ShadowCrew was much bigger than just one person. The Secret Service claims 4,000 members, but the real number was probably several hundred. Without the help of a well-established member (Gonzalez was actually a founder), it would have been much harder for the government to crack this fraud ring.
      - dasil003 16y ago
        Okay, so let's assume that's true, despite the fact that it's an extremely dubious claim considering the magnitude of the operations Gonzalez was running. Even then, your original claim was "what kind of message does a stiff sentence send", but then you come back with this as if it's better to send a message that the secret service are a bunch of suckers who you can play til the end and still get off hook. Crime wouldn't be down for very long with that kind of message, and don't even get me started about the consequences of congress hearing that message.
LiveTheDream 16y ago
Gonzalez doesn't seem exceptionally competent. Depends what you're talking about. He's described in the article by his peers as "barely [able to] write simple code", but the US attorney who prosecuted described him as the type who knows how to manage talent around him (which seems obvious given how he leveraged friendships to accomplish some very high-level stuff.

dasil003 16y ago

> but they basically advertised, "If you become an informant, you risk getting a much much worse sentence." Uh, you mean if you not only continue your crime, but escalate it to unprecedented levels after agreeing to be an informant? I think that pretty much goes without saying.

AngryParsley 16y ago
Gonzalez's actions as an informant still reduced the total amount of credit card fraud. If he hadn't informed, his associates would have committed more crime and the Secret Service probably wouldn't have caught as many of them as quickly as they did. Assuming the Secret Service's goal is to reduce fraud, they should prefer informants who commit crimes to no informants at all.
- dasil003 16y ago
  > Gonzalez's actions as an informant still reduced the total amount of credit card fraud. Did they?
  - AngryParsley 16y ago
    Almost certainly. ShadowCrew was much bigger than just one person. The Secret Service claims 4,000 members, but the real number was probably several hundred. Without the help of a well-established member (Gonzalez was actually a founder), it would have been much harder for the government to crack this fraud ring.
    - dasil003 16y ago
      Okay, so let's assume that's true, despite the fact that it's an extremely dubious claim considering the magnitude of the operations Gonzalez was running. Even then, your original claim was "what kind of message does a stiff sentence send", but then you come back with this as if it's better to send a message that the secret service are a bunch of suckers who you can play til the end and still get off hook. Crime wouldn't be down for very long with that kind of message, and don't even get me started about the consequences of congress hearing that message.

LiveTheDream 16y ago

Gonzalez doesn't seem exceptionally competent. Depends what you're talking about. He's described in the article by his peers as "barely [able to] write simple code", but the US attorney who prosecuted described him as the type who knows how to manage talent around him (which seems obvious given how he leveraged friendships to accomplish some very high-level stuff.