5 ms·

I got an Oyster when visiting London a few years ago and taking public transit was still by a large margin more expensive than any other European city I've been

by ido 8y ago

I got an Oyster when visiting London a few years ago and taking public transit was still by a large margin more expensive than any other European city I've been to (and IIRC when available transit in the US is generally cheaper than in Europe). I was really surprised at how expensive it was! Especially as the pound's value at the time was quite a bit higher than today.

alias_neo 8y ago
It's pretty expensive yes. Especially for lower paid commuters in London. Driving is also a non-starter if you work centrally so it's really your only option. The only European city I recall being expensive compared to my usual commute was Geneva, Switzerland. Eastern-bloc tend to be cheaper while the likes of Germany are closer to our prices.
- heavenlyblue 8y ago
  Hamburg is similar.
  - ido 8y ago
    more than €5 for one direction? I doubt Hamburg is that expensive. Berlin transit is staggeringly cheaper than London.
    - heavenlyblue 8y ago
      I don't know what you're on about, but I am paying £2.90 to get from Brockley to Shoreditch High Street to get to work (7 miles in total). That's the same price I would pay for a bus I believe. People presume that Berlin is the center of Germany, when in fact it absolutely isn't. Hamburg is a much more wealthy city that Berlin. Here's [1] the ticket prices for Hamburg [1] and here's [2] the ticket prices for London, are you seeing much difference? [1] https://www.hvv.de/en/tickets/single-day-tickets/overview https://www.hvv.de/en/tickets/single-day-tickets/overview [2] https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/london-travelcard/ https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/london-travelcard/
      - ido 8y ago
        I'm not super sure about the rings in Hamburg but: 7.80€ for "Hamburg AB All Day Ticket" vs £13.10 (=14.68€) for London zones 1-4 "1 day any time" from your links are a factor of 2 more expensive for London. As for what I'm on about the >5€ price for a single ride ticket: I simply took the OP at their word (they mentioned the ticket costing £4.90 in the quote above us - anecdotally I paid about that much when visiting London and staying at friends' places). For Berlin I pay 760€ for a yearly ticket despite not living centrally (AB zone ticket still covers it). London zones 1-2 yearly ticket[1] is £1404 (=1574.45€) again factor of 2 more expensive. When we lived in Vienna (a wealthy city, probably similar to Munich or Hamburg) transit prices were similar to Berlin (maybe even cheaper). Not to mention that because London housing is so expensive most "common people" (who aren't living with room mates or are very wealthy) live in what we would consider a suburb rather than the city (in terms of distance from the city center) thus paying fares from further zones (iirc my friends at the time lived in zone 3 & were middle class professionals not paupers and/or with huge families). [1] https://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm https://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm
        xioxox 8y ago
        If I travelled into the centre of Munich every day (I'm in the 7th ring out of 16), it would cost me 1400 euros a year (a full network ticket would be 2700 euros!). That seems rather similar to London.
        ido 8y ago
        I don’t know about Munich, maybe it’s the exception in the German-speaking countries. From 8 years of living in Vienna and 5 of living in Berlin transit costs were never significant to me & I never lived in the center of either city. The numbers quoted from the links above line up with my gut feeling when visiting London (my feeling was even more extreme actually, but a few years ago the GBP was worth a lot more € than today).
        heavenlyblue 8y ago
Brakenshire 8y ago
Transport for London at the moment is fully self-funding from ticket prices, which I think is unusual elsewhere in Europe.
- urschrei 8y ago
  TfL is not fully self-funded, or even close to it. It derived 47% of its funding from fares in 2017/2018. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-ar.... In fact, it's facing a large (close to £1 bn) deficit this year due to falling passenger numbers.
  - Brakenshire 8y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I think the 47% figure is misleading in this sense though, I mean to refer to the running and maintenance costs of the public transport service, but in fact of course TfL does various other things, including maintenance of the roads and contributions to large capital investments like Crossrail which will always mean public grants.
n4r9 8y ago
Taking the tube is relatively expensive in London compared to Europe. Taking the bus is relatively cheap: £1.50 for any journey, including any number of changes up to 70 minutes after your first hop-on. It's great that I can commute to work for a £3 round-trip with a change halfway if I choose not to cycle! Of course, that's in South-West London and even then the traffic can get pretty bad. In central it's probably nightmarish to do it regularly.

by ido 8y ago

alias_neo 8y ago

It's pretty expensive yes. Especially for lower paid commuters in London. Driving is also a non-starter if you work centrally so it's really your only option. The only European city I recall being expensive compared to my usual commute was Geneva, Switzerland. Eastern-bloc tend to be cheaper while the likes of Germany are closer to our prices.

heavenlyblue 8y ago
Hamburg is similar.
- ido 8y ago
  more than €5 for one direction? I doubt Hamburg is that expensive. Berlin transit is staggeringly cheaper than London.
  - heavenlyblue 8y ago
    I don't know what you're on about, but I am paying £2.90 to get from Brockley to Shoreditch High Street to get to work (7 miles in total). That's the same price I would pay for a bus I believe. People presume that Berlin is the center of Germany, when in fact it absolutely isn't. Hamburg is a much more wealthy city that Berlin. Here's [1] the ticket prices for Hamburg [1] and here's [2] the ticket prices for London, are you seeing much difference? [1] https://www.hvv.de/en/tickets/single-day-tickets/overview https://www.hvv.de/en/tickets/single-day-tickets/overview [2] https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/london-travelcard/ https://www.visitbritainshop.com/world/london-travelcard/
    - ido 8y ago
      I'm not super sure about the rings in Hamburg but: 7.80€ for "Hamburg AB All Day Ticket" vs £13.10 (=14.68€) for London zones 1-4 "1 day any time" from your links are a factor of 2 more expensive for London. As for what I'm on about the >5€ price for a single ride ticket: I simply took the OP at their word (they mentioned the ticket costing £4.90 in the quote above us - anecdotally I paid about that much when visiting London and staying at friends' places). For Berlin I pay 760€ for a yearly ticket despite not living centrally (AB zone ticket still covers it). London zones 1-2 yearly ticket[1] is £1404 (=1574.45€) again factor of 2 more expensive. When we lived in Vienna (a wealthy city, probably similar to Munich or Hamburg) transit prices were similar to Berlin (maybe even cheaper). Not to mention that because London housing is so expensive most "common people" (who aren't living with room mates or are very wealthy) live in what we would consider a suburb rather than the city (in terms of distance from the city center) thus paying fares from further zones (iirc my friends at the time lived in zone 3 & were middle class professionals not paupers and/or with huge families). [1] https://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm https://www.londontoolkit.com/briefing/travelcard.htm
      - xioxox 8y ago
        If I travelled into the centre of Munich every day (I'm in the 7th ring out of 16), it would cost me 1400 euros a year (a full network ticket would be 2700 euros!). That seems rather similar to London.
        ido 8y ago
        I don’t know about Munich, maybe it’s the exception in the German-speaking countries. From 8 years of living in Vienna and 5 of living in Berlin transit costs were never significant to me & I never lived in the center of either city. The numbers quoted from the links above line up with my gut feeling when visiting London (my feeling was even more extreme actually, but a few years ago the GBP was worth a lot more € than today).
        heavenlyblue 8y ago

Brakenshire 8y ago

Transport for London at the moment is fully self-funding from ticket prices, which I think is unusual elsewhere in Europe.

urschrei 8y ago
TfL is not fully self-funded, or even close to it. It derived 47% of its funding from fares in 2017/2018. https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-are-funded https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-ar.... In fact, it's facing a large (close to £1 bn) deficit this year due to falling passenger numbers.
- Brakenshire 8y ago
  Thanks for the correction. I think the 47% figure is misleading in this sense though, I mean to refer to the running and maintenance costs of the public transport service, but in fact of course TfL does various other things, including maintenance of the roads and contributions to large capital investments like Crossrail which will always mean public grants.

n4r9 8y ago

Taking the tube is relatively expensive in London compared to Europe. Taking the bus is relatively cheap: £1.50 for any journey, including any number of changes up to 70 minutes after your first hop-on. It's great that I can commute to work for a £3 round-trip with a change halfway if I choose not to cycle! Of course, that's in South-West London and even then the traffic can get pretty bad. In central it's probably nightmarish to do it regularly.