4 ms·

The unhealthy reality is that criticising the NHS or the TV license is not allowed on penalty of being ostracised and labelled an extremist. So most people abs

The unhealthy reality is that criticising the NHS or the TV license is not allowed on penalty of being ostracised and labelled an extremist. So most people abstain unless they know it is OK to talk.

albertgoeswoof 8y ago
NHS maybe, the license fee is fine to complain about
- gadders 8y ago
  But sometimes people see an attack on the license fee as an attack on the BBC, which is also treated as a beloved institution by much of the UK.
  - notahacker 8y ago
    Criticising BBC news coverage for not reflecting ones own political biases is practically a national sport though
Jonnax 8y ago
The NHS is fine to criticise. But if someone says the solution to its issues are to sell the profitable parts to the friends and family of conservative politicians. Then that's not going to make you popular.
- entity345 8y ago
  Exactly my point. If someone emits a criticism it MUST mean that they want "an American system" and "to sell the profitable parts to the friends and family of conservative politicians" because, of course, that's the only alternative to the current situation... So it's fine to criticise as long as the criticism is limited to suggesting that perhaps the hospital's car park could be slightly cheaper, if that's not too much bother, please, sorry. Hence why people either say that everything's great or keep quiet.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    Rather like Brexit and the various "Lexit" plans, regardless of what people might want or might be better under a different system, what you're going to get in practice is some kind of privatised system. We're a very long way from being able to safely discuss progressive improvements. (More funding would be hugely popular, as the Brexit A/B testers discovered with the "£350m for the NHS" bus...)
- dev_north_east 8y ago
  [Immigrant in UK] I'll never forget at one party/gathering where in a conversation I proposed that some base charge should be applied to those who book appointments with their GP and don't show up. I suggested a fiver (which I think is very low tbh). I was then subject to the most unexpected arguments, accusations and outrage! I truly got it then that the NHS is the real state religion in Britain.
  - heavenlyblue 8y ago
    These are the same people who forget that a single visit to an NHS dentist is about £20 anyway.
    - tialaramex 8y ago
      It isn't if you have the certificate saying you proved you can't afford this sort of thing. Most NHS dentists have the paperwork and posters advertising it if you are somehow unaware those exist. Everything is free if you're both poor AND fill out all the paperwork. There is a debate to be had about whether "make poor people fill out paperwork" is a justifiable approach, but it doesn't have to cost you £20 for the check-up.
      - IneffablePigeon 8y ago
        I was going to do this when I was a student and the form was so long and convoluted I decided to just pay. It all seemed just slightly designed to stop you claiming it.
        wackro 8y ago
        I filled that form out too. It wasn't the quickest, but it wasn't difficult either. Definitely didn't get the impression that it was some kind of barrier.
  - Jonnax 8y ago
    Because when you start charging, the price will only go up. University used to be free in the UK. Then tuition fees at University started at £1000ish a year, went up to about £3000, and is now £9000. All in about 10 years. Also small fees like these affect the poor more than the well off. If I miss an appointment and it costs me £5, I wouldn't miss the money. A quick search apparently shows that a quarter of British households have less than £100 in savings. [0] When that's 5% of their money that's just punishing the poor. [0] https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-4234518/Savings-inequality-rise-gap-grows-25.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-4234518/Savings-...

The unhealthy reality is that criticising the NHS or the TV license is not allowed on penalty of being ostracised and labelled an extremist. So most people abstain unless they know it is OK to talk.

albertgoeswoof 8y ago

NHS maybe, the license fee is fine to complain about

gadders 8y ago
But sometimes people see an attack on the license fee as an attack on the BBC, which is also treated as a beloved institution by much of the UK.
- notahacker 8y ago
  Criticising BBC news coverage for not reflecting ones own political biases is practically a national sport though

Jonnax 8y ago

The NHS is fine to criticise. But if someone says the solution to its issues are to sell the profitable parts to the friends and family of conservative politicians. Then that's not going to make you popular.

entity345 8y ago
Exactly my point. If someone emits a criticism it MUST mean that they want "an American system" and "to sell the profitable parts to the friends and family of conservative politicians" because, of course, that's the only alternative to the current situation... So it's fine to criticise as long as the criticism is limited to suggesting that perhaps the hospital's car park could be slightly cheaper, if that's not too much bother, please, sorry. Hence why people either say that everything's great or keep quiet.
- pjc50 8y ago
  Rather like Brexit and the various "Lexit" plans, regardless of what people might want or might be better under a different system, what you're going to get in practice is some kind of privatised system. We're a very long way from being able to safely discuss progressive improvements. (More funding would be hugely popular, as the Brexit A/B testers discovered with the "£350m for the NHS" bus...)
dev_north_east 8y ago
[Immigrant in UK] I'll never forget at one party/gathering where in a conversation I proposed that some base charge should be applied to those who book appointments with their GP and don't show up. I suggested a fiver (which I think is very low tbh). I was then subject to the most unexpected arguments, accusations and outrage! I truly got it then that the NHS is the real state religion in Britain.
- heavenlyblue 8y ago
  These are the same people who forget that a single visit to an NHS dentist is about £20 anyway.
  - tialaramex 8y ago
    It isn't if you have the certificate saying you proved you can't afford this sort of thing. Most NHS dentists have the paperwork and posters advertising it if you are somehow unaware those exist. Everything is free if you're both poor AND fill out all the paperwork. There is a debate to be had about whether "make poor people fill out paperwork" is a justifiable approach, but it doesn't have to cost you £20 for the check-up.
    - IneffablePigeon 8y ago
      I was going to do this when I was a student and the form was so long and convoluted I decided to just pay. It all seemed just slightly designed to stop you claiming it.
      - wackro 8y ago
        I filled that form out too. It wasn't the quickest, but it wasn't difficult either. Definitely didn't get the impression that it was some kind of barrier.
- Jonnax 8y ago
  Because when you start charging, the price will only go up. University used to be free in the UK. Then tuition fees at University started at £1000ish a year, went up to about £3000, and is now £9000. All in about 10 years. Also small fees like these affect the poor more than the well off. If I miss an appointment and it costs me £5, I wouldn't miss the money. A quick search apparently shows that a quarter of British households have less than £100 in savings. [0] When that's 5% of their money that's just punishing the poor. [0] https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-4234518/Savings-inequality-rise-gap-grows-25.html https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/article-4234518/Savings-...