3 ms·

I didn't even realise you could buy paper tickets. You can use contactless credit cards and apple pay directly on the gate, so there's no reason to buy one.

robin_reala 8y ago
I usually had a paper ticket in London because I’d be coming in from Guildford - the mag strip on the paper ticket you buy for your commute into London also encoded a travelcard for tube usage.
- Nursie 8y ago
  Still the case now, a lot of train tickets-with-travelcard are paper. Just two weeks ago I was finally able to get an oyster-like card from South West Rail that works with the train and the tube. Progress, finally!
  - pbalau 8y ago
    Maybe there should be a generic oyster card, that should work for all public transportation systems in uk. One physical token, linked to many accounts.
    - Nursie 8y ago
      That would be nice :) I think the fragmented nature of the operating companies probably doesn't help. Maybe with time!
    - tialaramex 8y ago
      The standard for this exists, it is named ITSO. You will not be surprised to learn that although many local transport systems issue cards with ITSO logos they don't actually interoperate in a useful fashion since different local authorities and operators have contradictory requirements. For example in Bingley (Yorkshire) where my mother lives, and in Southampton (on the South Coast) where I live, the buses use ITSO smartcards. But you can't take a ride on her bus with my smartcard. Contactless bank cards do work on both systems though, and on the London transport network. So "Use a credit card" ends up being the "one physical token" solution.
      - Nursie 8y ago
        It's Southampton that I'm in too, as of about two weeks ago you can now get the card that operates the train gates at central and oyster gates in London. About 8 years after they put in the gates... Baby Steps!
      - pbalau 8y ago
        > But you can't take a ride on her bus with my smartcard. Even if I put some money on that card, via her bus' payment system? As in, I go to a tfl ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again and then I can use the card on the underground. Then I go to Southampton, go to a ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again, then I can use the card on the Southampton's transit system.
        tialaramex 8y ago
        Unlike Oyster, you usually can't load "money" into ITSO cards. In Southampton you can load "journeys" or "season tickets" and I think the same in Bingley. I put journeys on my Southampton card because I don't use a bus for weeks at a time. But you do that by going to a web site with ID for the local card, there's no way that I've found to go "Er, I have a different ITSO card from somewhere else".
        Nursie 8y ago
        > As in, I go to a tfl ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again and then I can use the card on the underground. Then I go to Southampton, go to a ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again, then I can use the card on the Southampton's transit system. Literally just tried this with the Southampton card in London against a tfl machine. No Dice. Shame, but yeah, not really surprising.
vertex-four 8y ago
If you have incredibly poor credit, you can’t even get a contactless debit card from many banks. A transport network needs to be designed so that everybody can use it - that means being able to access it with cash. Even Oyster’s £5 deposit per card can be an issue for some people.
- tialaramex 8y ago
  You don't need credit to have a contactless debit card, they're just locked down to require online transactions so that it's impossible to go overdrawn. In normal operation a TfL gate is online (ie able to talk to your card issuer) so it can work with any type of card.
  - vertex-four 8y ago
    Sure, but many basic bank accounts (those available to people with extremely poor credit history and no income) don't have a contactless debit card anyway, such as the one Bank of Scotland does: https://www.bankofscotland.co.uk/bankaccounts/compare-current-accounts/basic-account/ https://www.bankofscotland.co.uk/bankaccounts/compare-curren...
  - jon-wood 8y ago
    TfL gates aren't online in anything but the most basic way - the first time you use a contactless card on TfL each day they'll place a hold for 10p to verify the card is valid. They then modify that to request the total cost of travel for the previous day after that.
- denverbroncos 8y ago
  flexbasic from nationwide issues a contactless card from the get go if you don't get offered a "normal" current account. also supports apple/google/samsung pay. https://www.nationwide.co.uk/products/current-accounts/flexbasic/features-and-benefits https://www.nationwide.co.uk/products/current-accounts/flexb...

robin_reala 8y ago

I usually had a paper ticket in London because I’d be coming in from Guildford - the mag strip on the paper ticket you buy for your commute into London also encoded a travelcard for tube usage.

Nursie 8y ago
Still the case now, a lot of train tickets-with-travelcard are paper. Just two weeks ago I was finally able to get an oyster-like card from South West Rail that works with the train and the tube. Progress, finally!
- pbalau 8y ago
  Maybe there should be a generic oyster card, that should work for all public transportation systems in uk. One physical token, linked to many accounts.
  - Nursie 8y ago
    That would be nice :) I think the fragmented nature of the operating companies probably doesn't help. Maybe with time!
  - tialaramex 8y ago
    The standard for this exists, it is named ITSO. You will not be surprised to learn that although many local transport systems issue cards with ITSO logos they don't actually interoperate in a useful fashion since different local authorities and operators have contradictory requirements. For example in Bingley (Yorkshire) where my mother lives, and in Southampton (on the South Coast) where I live, the buses use ITSO smartcards. But you can't take a ride on her bus with my smartcard. Contactless bank cards do work on both systems though, and on the London transport network. So "Use a credit card" ends up being the "one physical token" solution.
    - Nursie 8y ago
      It's Southampton that I'm in too, as of about two weeks ago you can now get the card that operates the train gates at central and oyster gates in London. About 8 years after they put in the gates... Baby Steps!
    - pbalau 8y ago
      > But you can't take a ride on her bus with my smartcard. Even if I put some money on that card, via her bus' payment system? As in, I go to a tfl ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again and then I can use the card on the underground. Then I go to Southampton, go to a ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again, then I can use the card on the Southampton's transit system.
      - tialaramex 8y ago
        Unlike Oyster, you usually can't load "money" into ITSO cards. In Southampton you can load "journeys" or "season tickets" and I think the same in Bingley. I put journeys on my Southampton card because I don't use a bus for weeks at a time. But you do that by going to a web site with ID for the local card, there's no way that I've found to go "Er, I have a different ITSO card from somewhere else".
      - Nursie 8y ago
        > As in, I go to a tfl ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again and then I can use the card on the underground. Then I go to Southampton, go to a ticket machine, touch, put money on, touch again, then I can use the card on the Southampton's transit system. Literally just tried this with the Southampton card in London against a tfl machine. No Dice. Shame, but yeah, not really surprising.

vertex-four 8y ago

If you have incredibly poor credit, you can’t even get a contactless debit card from many banks. A transport network needs to be designed so that everybody can use it - that means being able to access it with cash. Even Oyster’s £5 deposit per card can be an issue for some people.

tialaramex 8y ago
You don't need credit to have a contactless debit card, they're just locked down to require online transactions so that it's impossible to go overdrawn. In normal operation a TfL gate is online (ie able to talk to your card issuer) so it can work with any type of card.
- vertex-four 8y ago
  Sure, but many basic bank accounts (those available to people with extremely poor credit history and no income) don't have a contactless debit card anyway, such as the one Bank of Scotland does: https://www.bankofscotland.co.uk/bankaccounts/compare-current-accounts/basic-account/ https://www.bankofscotland.co.uk/bankaccounts/compare-curren...
- jon-wood 8y ago
  TfL gates aren't online in anything but the most basic way - the first time you use a contactless card on TfL each day they'll place a hold for 10p to verify the card is valid. They then modify that to request the total cost of travel for the previous day after that.
denverbroncos 8y ago
flexbasic from nationwide issues a contactless card from the get go if you don't get offered a "normal" current account. also supports apple/google/samsung pay. https://www.nationwide.co.uk/products/current-accounts/flexbasic/features-and-benefits https://www.nationwide.co.uk/products/current-accounts/flexb...