4 ms·

And juste because I delegated management of contacts to Facebook, are they excused for not letting me get my data out whenever I want to switch contact manageme

And juste because I delegated management of contacts to Facebook, are they excused for not letting me get my data out whenever I want to switch contact management services -- for example -- to diaspora?

cookiecaper 16y ago
Facebook allows you to do this now. Go to Account->Account Settings->Download your Information.
- wmf 16y ago
  In Facebook, email adresses are not considered your information and thus are not exportable AFAIK.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
portman 16y ago
That's not what I said. With Facebook, you delegate authority to manage email address to YOUR CONTACTS (not Facebook). In Google or any other address book, I can go into my friend Ted's contact and change his email address if I want to. In Facebook, I can't change Ted's email address. Only Ted can change it. To me, this is a MAJOR distinction.
- stanleydrew 16y ago
  I grant you the distinction. Now can you please explain why it's important and how Google failing to understand it is the cause of all this.
  - portman 16y ago
    I just wrote a long-ish hypothetical further up the thread. And you know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe Google DOES understand this just fine. But I think the strong language they're using, the bombastic language of "fairness" and "protectionism", implies that they are taking a subtle, nuanced issue of data ownership and pretending it's binary.
portman 16y ago
Again, this hinges on the meaning "my data". From your statement, I am guessing you believe that the email addresses of your contacts is your data. So here's the thought experiment: Amy uses GMail and has been corresponding with Bill, who works at Acme. Bill's email address, bill@acme.com, is in Amy's GMail address book. "bill@acme.com" is now a piece of data that is, unquestionably, "owned" by Amy. Amy joins Facebook, uses the GMail importer to detect if any of her GMail contacts are also on Facebook, and sees that Bill is on Facebook. She asks to be Bill's friend, and he accepts. Several months later, Bill gets a new job. He now works for The Nonprofit Foundation, and his new email address is bill@nonprofit.org. Bill logs into his Facebook account and updates his email address. Because Amy uses Facebook and is friends with Bill, she can see his new email address. Is the piece of data "bill@nonprofit.org" now "owned" by Amy? -- Personally, I think it's a complex question. I don't automatically ascribe ownership of "bill@nonprofit.org" to Amy, and it's hard for me to say that she has a right to export that email address out of Facebook. Others may disagree. But I would hope we ALL can agree that the above scenario is not black and white, and that we can have a reasoned discussion about data ownership.
- alttab 16y ago
  If Bill puts his new e-mail address on Facebook - he has effectively chosen to give it away. It is now information that all of his friends own. Choose your friends carefully, but choose the data you put on Facebook with even more discretion.
  - gammarator 16y ago
    You can make email addresses private on Facebook, so that none of your friends can see them. However, people who already have your email address can use it to find you. Facebook and Google are using those email addresses for very different purposes: Facebook uses them to identify the profiles of your contacts (the user id is the lasting identity) whereas for Google the email address itself is the relevant identity.
- arron61 16y ago
  The point is FB can sell your data to other companies like Yahoo and Microsoft and this is not a privacy issue. When you attempt to download your own data, it becomes one...ROFL..right..FB really thinks this is a privacy issue. It's just a PR stunt so they can keep all their data within their ecosystem.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

cookiecaper 16y ago

Facebook allows you to do this now. Go to Account->Account Settings->Download your Information.

wmf 16y ago
In Facebook, email adresses are not considered your information and thus are not exportable AFAIK.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

portman 16y ago

That's not what I said. With Facebook, you delegate authority to manage email address to YOUR CONTACTS (not Facebook). In Google or any other address book, I can go into my friend Ted's contact and change his email address if I want to. In Facebook, I can't change Ted's email address. Only Ted can change it. To me, this is a MAJOR distinction.

stanleydrew 16y ago
I grant you the distinction. Now can you please explain why it's important and how Google failing to understand it is the cause of all this.
- portman 16y ago
  I just wrote a long-ish hypothetical further up the thread. And you know what? Maybe you're right. Maybe Google DOES understand this just fine. But I think the strong language they're using, the bombastic language of "fairness" and "protectionism", implies that they are taking a subtle, nuanced issue of data ownership and pretending it's binary.

portman 16y ago

Again, this hinges on the meaning "my data". From your statement, I am guessing you believe that the email addresses of your contacts is your data. So here's the thought experiment: Amy uses GMail and has been corresponding with Bill, who works at Acme. Bill's email address, bill@acme.com, is in Amy's GMail address book. "bill@acme.com" is now a piece of data that is, unquestionably, "owned" by Amy. Amy joins Facebook, uses the GMail importer to detect if any of her GMail contacts are also on Facebook, and sees that Bill is on Facebook. She asks to be Bill's friend, and he accepts. Several months later, Bill gets a new job. He now works for The Nonprofit Foundation, and his new email address is bill@nonprofit.org. Bill logs into his Facebook account and updates his email address. Because Amy uses Facebook and is friends with Bill, she can see his new email address. Is the piece of data "bill@nonprofit.org" now "owned" by Amy? -- Personally, I think it's a complex question. I don't automatically ascribe ownership of "bill@nonprofit.org" to Amy, and it's hard for me to say that she has a right to export that email address out of Facebook. Others may disagree. But I would hope we ALL can agree that the above scenario is not black and white, and that we can have a reasoned discussion about data ownership.

alttab 16y ago
If Bill puts his new e-mail address on Facebook - he has effectively chosen to give it away. It is now information that all of his friends own. Choose your friends carefully, but choose the data you put on Facebook with even more discretion.
- gammarator 16y ago
  You can make email addresses private on Facebook, so that none of your friends can see them. However, people who already have your email address can use it to find you. Facebook and Google are using those email addresses for very different purposes: Facebook uses them to identify the profiles of your contacts (the user id is the lasting identity) whereas for Google the email address itself is the relevant identity.
arron61 16y ago
The point is FB can sell your data to other companies like Yahoo and Microsoft and this is not a privacy issue. When you attempt to download your own data, it becomes one...ROFL..right..FB really thinks this is a privacy issue. It's just a PR stunt so they can keep all their data within their ecosystem.

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]