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Howdy! I work in cleantech, and I guess it's that time again for a what-can-you-do-about-it post :) To start, here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say

Howdy! I work in cleantech, and I guess it's that time again for a what-can-you-do-about-it post :) To start, here's my favorite climate change joke: "They say we won't act until it's too late... Luckily, it's too late!" ==So what can you do about it?== I work in cleantech, and you should, too! Solar and wind are economical, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. That means tons and tons of problem solving, which means great tech and engineering jobs! If you think about it, the switch to renewables means we need to deal with situations where the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing, yet still keep the lights on. That means you have to build in a ton of storage and load control, which means good communication and analysis, which means software! Something like half of the impact of the energy transition will be done through software optimizing the deployment and operation of clean energy assets. Anyway, please check out my previous comments on recommendations when looking for climate impact work[1]. Also, working in cleantech can significantly reduce the feelings of hopelessness around disasters. Think of it like exercise. By working at it, your body naturally replaces anxiety with optimism and motivation. Physically doing something to fight your anxiety will make you feel better. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154

maxxxxx 8y ago
What is "cleantech"? It sounds good but I have no idea what it is.
- tareqak 8y ago
  Cleantech is an industry term used to describe products or services that improve operational performance, productivity, or efficiency while reducing costs, inputs, energy consumption, waste, or environmental pollution [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_technology#Cleantech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_technology#Cleantech
vowelless 8y ago
> Solar and wind are economical, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. I appreciate your passion and desire to fix our planet. But am I the only one who thinks this is the biggest distraction to solving the energy problems of today and the next 100 years? It is just very difficult to get solar to produce the type of energy the world needs for the next 100 years. And it’s the 21st century — its embarrassing that we are talking about wind energy! Simply put, we need nuclear power. We need to spend more time and energy trying to innovate on nuclear energy. That’s what is needed to support the power needs of 10 billion people who will have the energy demands of a modern western nation today. Solar and wind will just not cut it. See this talk at NeurIPS 2017 https://nips.cc/Conferences/2017/Schedule?showEvent=8729 https://nips.cc/Conferences/2017/Schedule?showEvent=8729 https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  Nuclear is never going to happen, ever, due to a combination of issues (cost, regulation, liability, waste disposal and reprocessing). China is throwing in the towel on most of it's nuclear power plants [1]. I am deeply disappointed you dismiss wind and solar. They're extremely cheap (~2-4 cents/kwh at utility scale), require very little permitting to deploy, and fail safely. You're limited solely by how fast you can churn out PV panels, wind turbines, and get those components installed. Enough sunlight falls on the Earth in 30 minutes to power humanity for a year. The potential is there, and scaling is orders of magnitude more simple with renewables than nuclear. >90% of new generation in the US along each year are renewables. Coal fired plants are decomissioning decades earlier than predicted. Not even natural gas is as profitable as expected in some markets (Texas) due to how much wind power has been generated. 150+ GWac of new solar generation is planned to be online within the next five years in the US [2]. It would take two decades to replace all fossil generation with wind and solar. Faster if we taxed carbon and poured that money into renewables and battery storage. Nothing fancy required. Anyone can be trained to install solar panels, on rooftops or on ground mounts. [1] https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612564/chinas-losing-its-taste-for-nuclear-power-thats-bad-news/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612564/chinas-losing-its-... (China’s losing its taste for nuclear power. That’s bad news.) [2] https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/01/01/solar-tsunami/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/01/01/solar-tsunami/
  - vowelless 8y ago
    Watch https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k and then give me your thoughts. I am curious to hear them.
    - toomuchtodo 8y ago
      Quick comments from skimming the video: * Speaker shows slide showing power demand increasing sharply into the future. This doesn't square with first world historical electrical demand growth data, and future growth is going to be a function of how quickly the third world develops. Aging first world countries will use less power, China's economy is rapidly slowing, India has an enormous effort to move to solar at the moment [1] [2], and Africa is a wildcard. * Speaker states that renewables can't provide industrial heat. This is false; there are several methods through which you can obtain industrial heat without fossil fuels [3]. * Speaker states that renewables can't compete with paid off fossil fuel plants. This is false; renewables are already cheaper than continuing to run existing sunk cost thermal generators [4] [5]. * Speaker appears to be advocating for fusion as a viable technology to solve climate change when no production commercial fusion generation technology exists. [1] https://qz.com/india/1519929/india-will-add-a-record-level-of-solar-power-capacity-in-2019/ https://qz.com/india/1519929/india-will-add-a-record-level-o... [2] https://qz.com/india/1475736/india-is-now-a-world-leader-in-renewable-energy/ https://qz.com/india/1475736/india-is-now-a-world-leader-in-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_heat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_heat [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/its-now-cheaper-to-build-a-new-wind-farm-than-to-keep-a-coal-plant-running/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/its-now-cheaper-to-build-a-new-... [5] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/even-in-indiana-new-renewables-are-cheaper-than-existing-coal-plants/540242/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/even-in-indiana-new-renewab...
sremani 8y ago
The following two twitter threads are more sober look at Solar and Wind. https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/989868124525809664?lang=en https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/989868124525809664?la... https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/1074644971720986624 https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/1074644971720986624
- shannongreen 8y ago
  Those were just a list of obstacles, but there was no honest analysis to speak of despite the boast that he can 'do math'; e.g., the nonsense claims about transmission losses and that solar only makes economic sense in the 'ideal' locations.
- philipkglass 8y ago
  More "wrong in a gloomy way" than "sober" IMO. He initially says that 500 miles is the limit for practical long distance power transmission. Transmitting power more than about 500 miles means a load loss of ~10%. The dots on the map represents cities. If the dots aren’t close to a red zone, transmission lost kills solar as a useful input. That's not true. Siemens quotes losses of 9.4% on a 800 km line for high voltage AC systems, but corresponding DC systems lose 6% at 500 kV or only 2.6% at 800 kV [1]. Look at this list of HVDC projects and sort tables by by Total Length: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects There are many projects over 805 km (500 miles). The 1362 km Pacific DC Intertie has connected Northwest hydropower to Los Angeles since 1970. In the second thread he also says "no generation >1k miles from metro regions" (1600 km). I'm not sure why he doubled this "limit" but it's still too low. Brazil already has 2 HVDC lines longer than that. India has 2 under construction. China has 4, with another under construction. He's wrong when he says "lithium [battery technology] does not charge or discharge fast enough." Compared to what, magic? It's faster than any other mainstream battery technology. It's far faster than combustion based peaking generators. That's why it got its utility market start in frequency regulation applications. He's wrong about other things too, but it takes a lot longer to refute a Gish Gallop than to dump one out on Twitter. According to his bio he has a couple of books published, and he makes good-looking graphics, so I'd be trying to muck out the Augean stables with a teaspoon here. [1] https://www.siemens.com/press/pool/de/events/2012/energy/2012-07-wismar/factsheet-hvdc-e.pdf https://www.siemens.com/press/pool/de/events/2012/energy/201...
futureastronaut 8y ago
I knew I'd read this comment word-for-word before. Is this really necessary? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18795757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18795757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17588647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17588647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14883557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14883557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13962777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13962777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13948427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13948427 I stopped looking after the last one, which is almost two years old.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  He specifically says "it's that time again, so it's not like he's pretending it's new content.
- grzm 8y ago
  If you think someone is abusing the site, you can email the mods via the Contact link in the footer.

maxxxxx 8y ago

What is "cleantech"? It sounds good but I have no idea what it is.

tareqak 8y ago
Cleantech is an industry term used to describe products or services that improve operational performance, productivity, or efficiency while reducing costs, inputs, energy consumption, waste, or environmental pollution [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_technology#Cleantech https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_technology#Cleantech

vowelless 8y ago

> Solar and wind are economical, so now the biggest issue is scaling them up. I appreciate your passion and desire to fix our planet. But am I the only one who thinks this is the biggest distraction to solving the energy problems of today and the next 100 years? It is just very difficult to get solar to produce the type of energy the world needs for the next 100 years. And it’s the 21st century — its embarrassing that we are talking about wind energy! Simply put, we need nuclear power. We need to spend more time and energy trying to innovate on nuclear energy. That’s what is needed to support the power needs of 10 billion people who will have the energy demands of a modern western nation today. Solar and wind will just not cut it. See this talk at NeurIPS 2017 https://nips.cc/Conferences/2017/Schedule?showEvent=8729 https://nips.cc/Conferences/2017/Schedule?showEvent=8729 https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Nuclear is never going to happen, ever, due to a combination of issues (cost, regulation, liability, waste disposal and reprocessing). China is throwing in the towel on most of it's nuclear power plants [1]. I am deeply disappointed you dismiss wind and solar. They're extremely cheap (~2-4 cents/kwh at utility scale), require very little permitting to deploy, and fail safely. You're limited solely by how fast you can churn out PV panels, wind turbines, and get those components installed. Enough sunlight falls on the Earth in 30 minutes to power humanity for a year. The potential is there, and scaling is orders of magnitude more simple with renewables than nuclear. >90% of new generation in the US along each year are renewables. Coal fired plants are decomissioning decades earlier than predicted. Not even natural gas is as profitable as expected in some markets (Texas) due to how much wind power has been generated. 150+ GWac of new solar generation is planned to be online within the next five years in the US [2]. It would take two decades to replace all fossil generation with wind and solar. Faster if we taxed carbon and poured that money into renewables and battery storage. Nothing fancy required. Anyone can be trained to install solar panels, on rooftops or on ground mounts. [1] https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612564/chinas-losing-its-taste-for-nuclear-power-thats-bad-news/ https://www.technologyreview.com/s/612564/chinas-losing-its-... (China’s losing its taste for nuclear power. That’s bad news.) [2] https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/01/01/solar-tsunami/ https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/01/01/solar-tsunami/
- vowelless 8y ago
  Watch https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k https://youtu.be/HL60wgrT67k and then give me your thoughts. I am curious to hear them.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    Quick comments from skimming the video: * Speaker shows slide showing power demand increasing sharply into the future. This doesn't square with first world historical electrical demand growth data, and future growth is going to be a function of how quickly the third world develops. Aging first world countries will use less power, China's economy is rapidly slowing, India has an enormous effort to move to solar at the moment [1] [2], and Africa is a wildcard. * Speaker states that renewables can't provide industrial heat. This is false; there are several methods through which you can obtain industrial heat without fossil fuels [3]. * Speaker states that renewables can't compete with paid off fossil fuel plants. This is false; renewables are already cheaper than continuing to run existing sunk cost thermal generators [4] [5]. * Speaker appears to be advocating for fusion as a viable technology to solve climate change when no production commercial fusion generation technology exists. [1] https://qz.com/india/1519929/india-will-add-a-record-level-of-solar-power-capacity-in-2019/ https://qz.com/india/1519929/india-will-add-a-record-level-o... [2] https://qz.com/india/1475736/india-is-now-a-world-leader-in-renewable-energy/ https://qz.com/india/1475736/india-is-now-a-world-leader-in-... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_heat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_heat [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/its-now-cheaper-to-build-a-new-wind-farm-than-to-keep-a-coal-plant-running/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/its-now-cheaper-to-build-a-new-... [5] https://www.utilitydive.com/news/even-in-indiana-new-renewables-are-cheaper-than-existing-coal-plants/540242/ https://www.utilitydive.com/news/even-in-indiana-new-renewab...

sremani 8y ago

The following two twitter threads are more sober look at Solar and Wind. https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/989868124525809664?lang=en https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/989868124525809664?la... https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/1074644971720986624 https://twitter.com/peterzeihan/status/1074644971720986624

shannongreen 8y ago
Those were just a list of obstacles, but there was no honest analysis to speak of despite the boast that he can 'do math'; e.g., the nonsense claims about transmission losses and that solar only makes economic sense in the 'ideal' locations.
philipkglass 8y ago
More "wrong in a gloomy way" than "sober" IMO. He initially says that 500 miles is the limit for practical long distance power transmission. Transmitting power more than about 500 miles means a load loss of ~10%. The dots on the map represents cities. If the dots aren’t close to a red zone, transmission lost kills solar as a useful input. That's not true. Siemens quotes losses of 9.4% on a 800 km line for high voltage AC systems, but corresponding DC systems lose 6% at 500 kV or only 2.6% at 800 kV [1]. Look at this list of HVDC projects and sort tables by by Total Length: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_HVDC_projects There are many projects over 805 km (500 miles). The 1362 km Pacific DC Intertie has connected Northwest hydropower to Los Angeles since 1970. In the second thread he also says "no generation >1k miles from metro regions" (1600 km). I'm not sure why he doubled this "limit" but it's still too low. Brazil already has 2 HVDC lines longer than that. India has 2 under construction. China has 4, with another under construction. He's wrong when he says "lithium [battery technology] does not charge or discharge fast enough." Compared to what, magic? It's faster than any other mainstream battery technology. It's far faster than combustion based peaking generators. That's why it got its utility market start in frequency regulation applications. He's wrong about other things too, but it takes a lot longer to refute a Gish Gallop than to dump one out on Twitter. According to his bio he has a couple of books published, and he makes good-looking graphics, so I'd be trying to muck out the Augean stables with a teaspoon here. [1] https://www.siemens.com/press/pool/de/events/2012/energy/2012-07-wismar/factsheet-hvdc-e.pdf https://www.siemens.com/press/pool/de/events/2012/energy/201...

futureastronaut 8y ago

I knew I'd read this comment word-for-word before. Is this really necessary? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18795757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18795757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18333727 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17588647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17588647 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15127154 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14883557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14883557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14085276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13962777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13962777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13948427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13948427 I stopped looking after the last one, which is almost two years old.

nerdponx 8y ago
He specifically says "it's that time again, so it's not like he's pretending it's new content.
grzm 8y ago
If you think someone is abusing the site, you can email the mods via the Contact link in the footer.