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Search for England’s Forgotten Footpaths

60 points by bcaulfield 8y ago

oh_sigh 8y ago
99% invisible had a nice podcast on the right to roam(mostly in England): https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/right-to-roam/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/right-to-roam/
- arethuza 8y ago
  I don't think the "Right to Roam" in England and Wales is quite as extensive as it is here in Scotland - basically we have the right to walk and camp pretty much anywhere as long as you are sensible - don't damage crops and avoid the immediate vicinity of houses. I'd really miss living somewhere where you can't pretty much wander about anywhere you want. Edit: To add another cool aspect about the wilder parts of Scotland, there is a network of free accommodation as well: "To maintain simple shelters in remote country for the use & benefit of all who love wild & lonely places." https://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/ https://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/
  - 7952 8y ago
    Beyond public rights of way, the right to roam is limited to defined areas. They are mostly moorland, or steep downland hillsides that are not cropped. It is quite limited in lowland areas and you are not allowed to camp, or use bikes.
  - girzel 8y ago
    The Scandinavia influence is showing: they have allemansrecht.
    - vidarh 8y ago
      Growing up in Norway, we were taught from primary school age that we could go pretty much whenever we wanted outside of urban settlements, as long as we behaved sensibly (no stepping on crops, no littering, ensuring you close gates to avoid letting animals loose), and that we could forage for berries or mushrooms without having to ask anyone for permission (fishing and hunting rights do have restrictions). It made it very strange to go elsewhere and realize how much land is fenced in and inaccessible to the public many places.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jaruzel 8y ago
    Also, most of the Beaches in Scotland belong to the people, and not the Crown, like they do in England and Wales. Which means no-one can stop you using them.
    - arethuza 8y ago
      I'm not sure if that's true - ownership of the foreshore seems (like many things in Scottish land ownership) quite complex - but the Crown does own about 50% of the foreshore: https://www.gov.scot/publications/land-reform-review-group-final-report-land-scotland-common-good/pages/26/ https://www.gov.scot/publications/land-reform-review-group-f...
      - Jaruzel 8y ago
        I sit corrected :)
        arethuza 8y ago
        I know someone who met the Queen and Princes Margaret out for a walk from the royal yacht on a beach on the Outer Hebrides - amusingly it looks like the beach they were on isn't owned by the Crown, but I doubt any landowner would argue with them as they had a group of Royal Marines tagging along at a discreet distance.
kcorbitt 8y ago
> He came across it, and the rest of the Maze, while walking on his lunch break. (His office was in an industrial park not far away.) I asked Fraser if he had been trying to get anywhere in particular. “Well, I roam about all over the place,” I love just rambling around the countryside and seeing new things. I walk a fair amount every day, and I find that there's something good for the soul about walking a lightly-travelled footpath with no particular destination in mind, alone with your thoughts. If there's no undeveloped land at hand I'll walk through the city, which has its own charm, but I find it doesn't have quite the same effect. I suppose I must be in the minority though. There are many trails near San Francisco where I never come across more than a handful of fellow walkers, despite the area's dense population.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  It's 4 a.m. Nasruddin leaves the tavern and walks the town aimlessly. A policeman stops him. "Why are you out wandering the streets in the middle of the night?" "Sir," replies Nasruddin, "if I knew the answer to that question, I would have been home hours ago!" -Rumi
- baroffoos 8y ago
  I do the same thing by bike. I often see weird stuff off the side of the road that you miss in a car and I can pull off and have a look easily.
oska 8y ago
Article on the same subject in the Guardian, from last month: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/04/memory-lanes-the-ramblers-trying-to-save-10000-lost-footpaths https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/04/memory-lanes-t...
sn41 8y ago
recommended for a related read : Robert Macfarlane, "The Old Ways" - a very lyrical book about tramping/hiking/roaming. https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/560/56083/the-old-ways/9780141030586.html https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/560/56083/the-old-ways/97801... I also like the wistful poem "Roads" by Edward Thomas: "On this earth 'tis sure We men have not made Anything that doth fade So soon, so long endure:" which contains the immortal line "Now All Roads Lead to France": https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57265/roads-56d23a98e9981 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57265/roads-56d23a98e...
Jaruzel 8y ago
> In England, public paths are made by walking them. You can make a new, legally recognised footpath by simply treading up and down it, with a few friends, for a period of twenty years. Nice. You can't get more British than that.
- Wildgoose 8y ago
  Strictly, English (and Welsh), not "British". The UK is a collection of countries (like Austria-Hungary) and Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own legal systems and different rules.
  - Jaruzel 8y ago
    I know, I'm a UK citizen. :)
- vidarh 8y ago
  It's actually common practice in a lot of countries that consistent public use over time creates a public right of way. It is conversely one of the reasons why private landowners sometimes engage in what often seems like relatively passive-aggressive signage, fencing or putting up gates to close access part of the day etc. to ensure they don't accidentally allow new public rights of way to be established.
clort 8y ago
The world is different now, we walk for leisure rather than going to work. Also there are not thousands of rural folk who need to get somewhere by foot on a daily basis meaning it is a problem, where over the years paths and parts of paths have been closed so that the paths that are left just don't go anywhere useful and then the landowners attempt to close them on the basis that they are no longer used. It is a further problem, where the council departments who are responsible for these paths are not funded adequately. I myself reported that a 'public right of way' sign was missing last year. The council representative asked if there was still a post present and when I replied negatively, they said that they would have been able to replace the sign easily but putting a new post in was subject to further funding which they did not have at the time. At least, I think, the footpath itself is shown on the OS map (definitive) and the council have it on a list (the representative said they were expecting new funding in the next tax year). I continue to walk it occasionally.

60 points by bcaulfield 8y ago

99% invisible had a nice podcast on the right to roam(mostly in England): https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/right-to-roam/ https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/right-to-roam/

arethuza 8y ago
I don't think the "Right to Roam" in England and Wales is quite as extensive as it is here in Scotland - basically we have the right to walk and camp pretty much anywhere as long as you are sensible - don't damage crops and avoid the immediate vicinity of houses. I'd really miss living somewhere where you can't pretty much wander about anywhere you want. Edit: To add another cool aspect about the wilder parts of Scotland, there is a network of free accommodation as well: "To maintain simple shelters in remote country for the use & benefit of all who love wild & lonely places." https://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/ https://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/
- 7952 8y ago
  Beyond public rights of way, the right to roam is limited to defined areas. They are mostly moorland, or steep downland hillsides that are not cropped. It is quite limited in lowland areas and you are not allowed to camp, or use bikes.
- girzel 8y ago
  The Scandinavia influence is showing: they have allemansrecht.
  - vidarh 8y ago
    Growing up in Norway, we were taught from primary school age that we could go pretty much whenever we wanted outside of urban settlements, as long as we behaved sensibly (no stepping on crops, no littering, ensuring you close gates to avoid letting animals loose), and that we could forage for berries or mushrooms without having to ask anyone for permission (fishing and hunting rights do have restrictions). It made it very strange to go elsewhere and realize how much land is fenced in and inaccessible to the public many places.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  Also, most of the Beaches in Scotland belong to the people, and not the Crown, like they do in England and Wales. Which means no-one can stop you using them.
  - arethuza 8y ago
    I'm not sure if that's true - ownership of the foreshore seems (like many things in Scottish land ownership) quite complex - but the Crown does own about 50% of the foreshore: https://www.gov.scot/publications/land-reform-review-group-final-report-land-scotland-common-good/pages/26/ https://www.gov.scot/publications/land-reform-review-group-f...
    - Jaruzel 8y ago
      I sit corrected :)
      - arethuza 8y ago
        I know someone who met the Queen and Princes Margaret out for a walk from the royal yacht on a beach on the Outer Hebrides - amusingly it looks like the beach they were on isn't owned by the Crown, but I doubt any landowner would argue with them as they had a group of Royal Marines tagging along at a discreet distance.

kcorbitt 8y ago

> He came across it, and the rest of the Maze, while walking on his lunch break. (His office was in an industrial park not far away.) I asked Fraser if he had been trying to get anywhere in particular. “Well, I roam about all over the place,” I love just rambling around the countryside and seeing new things. I walk a fair amount every day, and I find that there's something good for the soul about walking a lightly-travelled footpath with no particular destination in mind, alone with your thoughts. If there's no undeveloped land at hand I'll walk through the city, which has its own charm, but I find it doesn't have quite the same effect. I suppose I must be in the minority though. There are many trails near San Francisco where I never come across more than a handful of fellow walkers, despite the area's dense population.

oh_sigh 8y ago
It's 4 a.m. Nasruddin leaves the tavern and walks the town aimlessly. A policeman stops him. "Why are you out wandering the streets in the middle of the night?" "Sir," replies Nasruddin, "if I knew the answer to that question, I would have been home hours ago!" -Rumi
baroffoos 8y ago
I do the same thing by bike. I often see weird stuff off the side of the road that you miss in a car and I can pull off and have a look easily.

oska 8y ago

Article on the same subject in the Guardian, from last month: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/04/memory-lanes-the-ramblers-trying-to-save-10000-lost-footpaths https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/04/memory-lanes-t...

sn41 8y ago

recommended for a related read : Robert Macfarlane, "The Old Ways" - a very lyrical book about tramping/hiking/roaming. https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/560/56083/the-old-ways/9780141030586.html https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/560/56083/the-old-ways/97801... I also like the wistful poem "Roads" by Edward Thomas: "On this earth 'tis sure We men have not made Anything that doth fade So soon, so long endure:" which contains the immortal line "Now All Roads Lead to France": https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57265/roads-56d23a98e9981 https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57265/roads-56d23a98e...

Jaruzel 8y ago

> In England, public paths are made by walking them. You can make a new, legally recognised footpath by simply treading up and down it, with a few friends, for a period of twenty years. Nice. You can't get more British than that.

Wildgoose 8y ago
Strictly, English (and Welsh), not "British". The UK is a collection of countries (like Austria-Hungary) and Scotland and Northern Ireland have their own legal systems and different rules.
- Jaruzel 8y ago
  I know, I'm a UK citizen. :)
vidarh 8y ago
It's actually common practice in a lot of countries that consistent public use over time creates a public right of way. It is conversely one of the reasons why private landowners sometimes engage in what often seems like relatively passive-aggressive signage, fencing or putting up gates to close access part of the day etc. to ensure they don't accidentally allow new public rights of way to be established.

clort 8y ago

The world is different now, we walk for leisure rather than going to work. Also there are not thousands of rural folk who need to get somewhere by foot on a daily basis meaning it is a problem, where over the years paths and parts of paths have been closed so that the paths that are left just don't go anywhere useful and then the landowners attempt to close them on the basis that they are no longer used. It is a further problem, where the council departments who are responsible for these paths are not funded adequately. I myself reported that a 'public right of way' sign was missing last year. The council representative asked if there was still a post present and when I replied negatively, they said that they would have been able to replace the sign easily but putting a new post in was subject to further funding which they did not have at the time. At least, I think, the footpath itself is shown on the OS map (definitive) and the council have it on a list (the representative said they were expecting new funding in the next tax year). I continue to walk it occasionally.