5 ms·

Help me start a FOSS Tithing movement

109 points by epi0Bauqu 16y ago

duck 16y ago
Awesome idea Gabriel!
bhiggins 16y ago
you wanna use the word tithe then you're going to be brining in a lot of connotation baggage. not a fan.
- wwortiz 16y ago
  Haven't you ever heard of the church of emacs?
- epi0Bauqu 16y ago
  I'm not wed to it--no pun intended. It seemed fitting, but feel free to start a discussion about changing it on the newly created group: http://groups.google.com/group/fosstithe http://groups.google.com/group/fosstithe
waxman 16y ago
This is an awesome idea! I owe so much to FOSS it's not even funny. It'd be nice to give something back (beyond bug fixes and my own, lame contributions).
- gurraman 16y ago
  No need to wait for this to take off if you're eager -- many FOSS projects accept donations already.
BornInTheUSSR 16y ago
Part of me thinks that if all the companies that exist and thrive thanks to open source did this, we would advance tech much quicker. On the other hand, maybe it is the constraints and passion alone that have kept the community at its present level of quality.
brianm 16y ago
Speaking as a long time open source contributor, it is even better to contribute bug reports (detailed, replicable), assistance to folks on the users mailing lists, and code (if you are able). Donating money to open source organizations is great, as there is almost always some overhead, but contributing in kind is even better! That said, if you want to donate money, here are links to donate directly to a few open source foundations, off the top of my head: http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html http://www.python.org/psf/donations/ http://www.python.org/psf/donations/ https://my.fsf.org/donate https://my.fsf.org/donate
- pmjordan 16y ago
  I wonder if the two could be combined. Give the money with a purpose. Surely most projects will have some long-standing tasks which have never been attempted or completed due to lack of time. The project's legal entity might not want to pay someone to work on the project directly (or there might not be such an entity), but to someone wanting to invest into the project that seems a useful option. See also: Google's Summer of Code
  - rue 16y ago
    (And Ruby Summer of Code, organised by the community, after Google declined to sponsor any Ruby-related projects this year.)
- epi0Bauqu 16y ago
  I already do that--of course, one could always do more. Additionally, I never said a pledge had to be money--10% time would be great as well, i.e. FOSS fridays every other week or something. With the donations, it would of course be up to the pledger, but I was thinking something more directed with higher bang for the buck. Some ideas there would be for specific tasks that never seem to get done, or via bounties, or for student contests. In general though, I'm thinking more on a company basis rather than individual. My thought was that if a company could make a public pledge, they'd be more likely to embed it in their culture. Of course, it may be hard for existing companies to do it, so I'm thinking it may be more appropriate for startups.
jrockway 16y ago
A lot of employers will match your contributions up to some limit ($10,000 seems pretty standard), so if you do this, make sure you get your employer to match. You can actually get people to write some software with $20,000.
tseabrooks 16y ago
I for one don't think this is a very good idea. Firstly, I'm reminded of Jeff Atwood's article in 2008 (http://bit.ly/d82uSD http://bit.ly/d82uSD) where he talks about discovering that the open source project he donated $5000 to simply had no way to use the money. More over, as a developer open source software has never sat well with me. I don't understand how it got so hip and cool. I don't understand why anyone would want to participate. I'm damned good at my job... but I don't do it for free for anyone... My time is too valuable and my friends and family deserve to have as much time with me as possible. I know I'm mostly alone in this around these parts... But maybe someone can explain why so many people give away their free time using their hard earned, and valuable, skills for free. Though I do appreciate all their hard work, and I use open source products, I just don't understand why they do it.
- JabavuAdams 16y ago
  > But maybe someone can explain why so many people give away their free time using their hard earned, and valuable, skills for free. The difference is that you think of programming as a job, whereas a lot of programmers think of it as a hobby that can also pay the bills. You might as well ask why do people build model railroads, or airplanes? A final thing: if you have to justify activities financially, it constrains the activities you'll be willing to undertake. There's a lot of fun stuff to do that is not financially defensible, at least initially. This is fundamentally a job vs. calling thing. From my perspective I didn't understand how people could go into CS in university never having programmed before. I'm sure some of them are better programmers (and certainly employees) than I am, but it was new to me.
  - tseabrooks 16y ago
    Maybe that's the difference... I don't love writing software... I'm good at it... My employer is extremely happy with the job I do... I think it's part of my job to follow the industry... follow the most recent trends... But I don't love this. Whenever someone asks me if I like my job I tell them, "No, but I haven't thought of something else I'd rather do yet". I don't think your answer fully addresses the question. Surely you can do it as a hobby and find a way to turn your hobby coding into something that makes money. Hell, isn't that half the reason most of us are here (@HN) watching people turn side projects into businesses and thinking about how to do it ourselves? It seem's contrary to the aims of the community to say they participate in open source projects because it is their hobby. There has to be more to the motivation than that. Perhaps, It's a desire to have other folks that create software look at what you've done and see the good parts of it. Only a Software Engineer can see why this part here was tricky and clever and it's nice to have the kind of reinforcement. Often times a boss only cares about the result, they don't always revel in the tiny clever details that got there.
firdaus 16y ago
In a way, I think it's better for open source projects that need money to go the AGPL route. The way I see it with pledging is that you'd be getting companies that are already donating/contributing back to open source projects. Whether this will be more or less than what they're already contributing remains to be seen.
psawaya 16y ago
This seems like a voluntary version of the "software tax" RMS wrote about way back in the day in the GNU manifesto (http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html, see “Programmers need to make a living somehow.”) I guess it never caught on then, but perhaps now that most software companies benefit in some way from FOSS, it makes more sense. At any rate, you deserve much props for making this pledge.
bdr 16y ago
This makes more sense for individuals than companies. Startup get bought? Give 10% of your payout to the FOSS that helped you get there.
lkrubner 16y ago
I think it is difficult to get these movements going among individuals. I think it is easier to establish this as a cultural norm among those businesses that make money from open source. If the goal is to raise more money for open source projects, then the fundraising will work best if it is some dedicated amount of a company's profits. I think the consumers of open source technologies would appreciate knowing that some tiny percentage of their funds go back to the projects that make it all possible. For instance, if every ISP (using open source software) was committed to sending .01% of their profits to the Apache Foundation, it would offer Apache a degree of independence from those who currently pay its bills, and I, for one, would be pleased to know that some of my money was going to the software that makes my sites possible. The donations need to be automated as much as possible. At wpquestions.com we send out some small amount of money every month to the people who have created plugins for WordPress, whenever a question is posted about that plugin. The whole process is automated, no one needs to think about it. I think establishing this as a cultural norm throughout the open source community would help make the open source eco-system more vibrant. And lots of small payments from many small businesses probably allows greater freedom of maneuver (for the open source projects) than having a few big projects paid for by a few big corporations - simply looking at Oracle's handling of Java convinces me of the dangers of having all funding come from just a few sources.
Loic 16y ago
In the same kind of approach, you have 1% for the Planet. When you are part of the organization, like my company, you pay 1% of your turnover to one or more accredited environmental organizations each year. 1% for the Planet is not a middle man, they just control that you paid and allow you to use its label in your communication. http://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org http://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org
wzdd 16y ago
This sounds like flattr to me, particularly since they were going to set things up so you could repeatedly flattr the same sites (not sure if that's happened yet). Is there is a philosophical difference?
alanh 16y ago
It’s a wonderful idea. But won’t this be sending most money to those who least need it — e.g. lots to the big projects, and none to the little guys who spend days to months a year, but no more, on small, lesser-used but valuable open-source projects? I would like to see those little guys get a bigger chunk.
macco 16y ago
I like the idea. I written something an donating to open source projects myself: http://rockiger.com/en/blog/view/linux-users-are-software-pirates http://rockiger.com/en/blog/view/linux-users-are-software-pi... Imo contributing isn't enough. First class software is (often) in need of fulltime first class developers.

109 points by epi0Bauqu 16y ago

duck 16y ago

Awesome idea Gabriel!

bhiggins 16y ago

you wanna use the word tithe then you're going to be brining in a lot of connotation baggage. not a fan.

wwortiz 16y ago
Haven't you ever heard of the church of emacs?
epi0Bauqu 16y ago
I'm not wed to it--no pun intended. It seemed fitting, but feel free to start a discussion about changing it on the newly created group: http://groups.google.com/group/fosstithe http://groups.google.com/group/fosstithe

waxman 16y ago

This is an awesome idea! I owe so much to FOSS it's not even funny. It'd be nice to give something back (beyond bug fixes and my own, lame contributions).

gurraman 16y ago
No need to wait for this to take off if you're eager -- many FOSS projects accept donations already.

BornInTheUSSR 16y ago

Part of me thinks that if all the companies that exist and thrive thanks to open source did this, we would advance tech much quicker. On the other hand, maybe it is the constraints and passion alone that have kept the community at its present level of quality.

brianm 16y ago

Speaking as a long time open source contributor, it is even better to contribute bug reports (detailed, replicable), assistance to folks on the users mailing lists, and code (if you are able). Donating money to open source organizations is great, as there is almost always some overhead, but contributing in kind is even better! That said, if you want to donate money, here are links to donate directly to a few open source foundations, off the top of my head: http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html http://www.apache.org/foundation/contributing.html http://www.python.org/psf/donations/ http://www.python.org/psf/donations/ https://my.fsf.org/donate https://my.fsf.org/donate

pmjordan 16y ago
I wonder if the two could be combined. Give the money with a purpose. Surely most projects will have some long-standing tasks which have never been attempted or completed due to lack of time. The project's legal entity might not want to pay someone to work on the project directly (or there might not be such an entity), but to someone wanting to invest into the project that seems a useful option. See also: Google's Summer of Code
- rue 16y ago
  (And Ruby Summer of Code, organised by the community, after Google declined to sponsor any Ruby-related projects this year.)
epi0Bauqu 16y ago
I already do that--of course, one could always do more. Additionally, I never said a pledge had to be money--10% time would be great as well, i.e. FOSS fridays every other week or something. With the donations, it would of course be up to the pledger, but I was thinking something more directed with higher bang for the buck. Some ideas there would be for specific tasks that never seem to get done, or via bounties, or for student contests. In general though, I'm thinking more on a company basis rather than individual. My thought was that if a company could make a public pledge, they'd be more likely to embed it in their culture. Of course, it may be hard for existing companies to do it, so I'm thinking it may be more appropriate for startups.

jrockway 16y ago

A lot of employers will match your contributions up to some limit ($10,000 seems pretty standard), so if you do this, make sure you get your employer to match. You can actually get people to write some software with $20,000.

tseabrooks 16y ago

I for one don't think this is a very good idea. Firstly, I'm reminded of Jeff Atwood's article in 2008 (http://bit.ly/d82uSD http://bit.ly/d82uSD) where he talks about discovering that the open source project he donated $5000 to simply had no way to use the money. More over, as a developer open source software has never sat well with me. I don't understand how it got so hip and cool. I don't understand why anyone would want to participate. I'm damned good at my job... but I don't do it for free for anyone... My time is too valuable and my friends and family deserve to have as much time with me as possible. I know I'm mostly alone in this around these parts... But maybe someone can explain why so many people give away their free time using their hard earned, and valuable, skills for free. Though I do appreciate all their hard work, and I use open source products, I just don't understand why they do it.

JabavuAdams 16y ago
> But maybe someone can explain why so many people give away their free time using their hard earned, and valuable, skills for free. The difference is that you think of programming as a job, whereas a lot of programmers think of it as a hobby that can also pay the bills. You might as well ask why do people build model railroads, or airplanes? A final thing: if you have to justify activities financially, it constrains the activities you'll be willing to undertake. There's a lot of fun stuff to do that is not financially defensible, at least initially. This is fundamentally a job vs. calling thing. From my perspective I didn't understand how people could go into CS in university never having programmed before. I'm sure some of them are better programmers (and certainly employees) than I am, but it was new to me.
- tseabrooks 16y ago
  Maybe that's the difference... I don't love writing software... I'm good at it... My employer is extremely happy with the job I do... I think it's part of my job to follow the industry... follow the most recent trends... But I don't love this. Whenever someone asks me if I like my job I tell them, "No, but I haven't thought of something else I'd rather do yet". I don't think your answer fully addresses the question. Surely you can do it as a hobby and find a way to turn your hobby coding into something that makes money. Hell, isn't that half the reason most of us are here (@HN) watching people turn side projects into businesses and thinking about how to do it ourselves? It seem's contrary to the aims of the community to say they participate in open source projects because it is their hobby. There has to be more to the motivation than that. Perhaps, It's a desire to have other folks that create software look at what you've done and see the good parts of it. Only a Software Engineer can see why this part here was tricky and clever and it's nice to have the kind of reinforcement. Often times a boss only cares about the result, they don't always revel in the tiny clever details that got there.

firdaus 16y ago

In a way, I think it's better for open source projects that need money to go the AGPL route. The way I see it with pledging is that you'd be getting companies that are already donating/contributing back to open source projects. Whether this will be more or less than what they're already contributing remains to be seen.

psawaya 16y ago

This seems like a voluntary version of the "software tax" RMS wrote about way back in the day in the GNU manifesto (http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html http://www.gnu.org/gnu/manifesto.html, see “Programmers need to make a living somehow.”) I guess it never caught on then, but perhaps now that most software companies benefit in some way from FOSS, it makes more sense. At any rate, you deserve much props for making this pledge.

bdr 16y ago

This makes more sense for individuals than companies. Startup get bought? Give 10% of your payout to the FOSS that helped you get there.

lkrubner 16y ago

I think it is difficult to get these movements going among individuals. I think it is easier to establish this as a cultural norm among those businesses that make money from open source. If the goal is to raise more money for open source projects, then the fundraising will work best if it is some dedicated amount of a company's profits. I think the consumers of open source technologies would appreciate knowing that some tiny percentage of their funds go back to the projects that make it all possible. For instance, if every ISP (using open source software) was committed to sending .01% of their profits to the Apache Foundation, it would offer Apache a degree of independence from those who currently pay its bills, and I, for one, would be pleased to know that some of my money was going to the software that makes my sites possible. The donations need to be automated as much as possible. At wpquestions.com we send out some small amount of money every month to the people who have created plugins for WordPress, whenever a question is posted about that plugin. The whole process is automated, no one needs to think about it. I think establishing this as a cultural norm throughout the open source community would help make the open source eco-system more vibrant. And lots of small payments from many small businesses probably allows greater freedom of maneuver (for the open source projects) than having a few big projects paid for by a few big corporations - simply looking at Oracle's handling of Java convinces me of the dangers of having all funding come from just a few sources.

Loic 16y ago

In the same kind of approach, you have 1% for the Planet. When you are part of the organization, like my company, you pay 1% of your turnover to one or more accredited environmental organizations each year. 1% for the Planet is not a middle man, they just control that you paid and allow you to use its label in your communication. http://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org http://www.onepercentfortheplanet.org

wzdd 16y ago

This sounds like flattr to me, particularly since they were going to set things up so you could repeatedly flattr the same sites (not sure if that's happened yet). Is there is a philosophical difference?

alanh 16y ago

It’s a wonderful idea. But won’t this be sending most money to those who least need it — e.g. lots to the big projects, and none to the little guys who spend days to months a year, but no more, on small, lesser-used but valuable open-source projects? I would like to see those little guys get a bigger chunk.

macco 16y ago

I like the idea. I written something an donating to open source projects myself: http://rockiger.com/en/blog/view/linux-users-are-software-pirates http://rockiger.com/en/blog/view/linux-users-are-software-pi... Imo contributing isn't enough. First class software is (often) in need of fulltime first class developers.