11 ms·

Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. I'm not su

Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. I'm not surprised bias is not falling.

hashkb 8y ago
And in many cases (not all) is a result of lifestyle choices, which are on the table for value judgment.
- rhcom2 8y ago
  Choices you can't assume to understand by just looking at someone though.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > lifestyle choices Where have we heard that before... I'm not saying that obesity isn't bad for you, that shit will kill you, nor is it not understood how you can lose weight. But I feel like morbid obesity isn't as simple a solution as that, just like homosexuality can't be "cured" by simply stopping having sex with your own gender.
- jasonlotito 8y ago
  So you feel it's fair and reasonable to be biased against someone with a disease?
  - jazoom 8y ago
    A disease of their own causing, I think was their point. People are probably likely to be biased against someone with terrible dentition from not brushing, or from using methamphetamines.
    - jasonlotito 8y ago
      Then they can answer with a "Yes, it's okay to be biased against someone with a disease."
  - babyslothzoo 8y ago
    What disease is it that causes someone to routinely consume far more calories than required for their body to operate? Excess food consumption is not a disease. Now you can certainly argue, and quite effectively, that excess food consumption is addictive behavior, nearly identical to drug or alcohol abuse, but it's not a disease. There are conscious decisions made, and repeated. You are eating the donuts. You are drinking the vodka. You are shooting the heroin. You are smoking the cigarette. The substances might be addictive, but there is still an active and continuously ongoing decision making process going on.
    - jasonlotito 8y ago
      Obesity is defined as a disease by the AMA. You clearly didn't know this. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/ama-recognizes-obesity-as-a-disease.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/ama-recognizes-o...
      - jobigoud 8y ago
        You are talking past each other. Consider smokers. Addiction and pulmonary cancer is a disease. Smoking cigarettes everyday for decades is not per se but it's a cause. We tend to have special moral treatment for diseases that are preventable and caused by one's own behavior.
      - babyslothzoo 8y ago
        Oh yes of course, it's a "disease" that happened to put a chocolate bar into my mouth last night. You are so confident in your knowledge on this topic that you deflect and post an irrelevant link. Brilliant dialog and engagement, what a great debate we are having here. BRB my disease is inflicting me with a carb-loaded bagel this morning. You see, it is not simply that I am overconsuming calories for whatever reason (addictive / compulsive reward seeking behavior? No certainly not), instead the simple physics of weight gain and weight loss is a disease. Damnit, I dropped my iPhone on the floor. It must be that disease of physics known as gravity!
- skywhopper 8y ago
  Since you have no way to know why any particular individual is whatever weight they are, it would be wrong to judge them for that.
allwein 8y ago
I would tend to argue that institutional racism is also bad for your health and mental well-being.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  Sure it is, but institutional racism isn't a trait or property of any individual that they have control over.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. That also would have been once an argument used against homosexuality.
- hashkb 8y ago
  Are you saying you don't believe it's unhealthy to be obese?
  - greycol 8y ago
    No he is saying that homosexual behaviour was considered a health risk. There were plenty of bigots who even called aids punishment from god.
    - ivalm 8y ago
      But we do know homosexuality is not a health risk while obesity is very demonstrably a health risk. Are you really going to claim that obesity does not increase morbidity?
      - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        > But we do know homosexuality is not a health risk In the 80's it was considered fact that homosexuality was a health risk. AIDs was a huge concern.
        bdibs 8y ago
        That was just fearmongering, we have countless studies today that state obesity is linked to a higher overall mortality rate.
        SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        It's not. Even today, 67% of new cases of AIDs are among gay and bisexual men[1]. I don't argue that obesity isn't bad for you, but the issue is more complex, and I don't think it's right to stigmatize people for it. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html
dbg31415 8y ago
"It's OK to hate them because they deserve to be hated," is your argument. Look, you aren't always wrong, but there tend to be a few factors at work here. The thing about people is that we aren't just who we are in the moment, we're the sum of our experiences to date. If you want people to change, you have to show people not only that there are alternatives, and how to obtain the alternatives, but lastly -- and most importantly -- why they should strive for those alternatives. If you're just a dick to them, it doesn't help anyone. Judging someone for being fat is about like judging someone for not being born rich. Eating and exercise habits are taught very young, and are very hard to change. It's very rare you see someone who is obese who wasn't put on that path by their parents. Rather than make disparaging comments, I'm sure you have a friend who you could invite out for a jog? Or over to your place for dinners once or twice a week? Not everyone has rewards wired in the same as you do, certainly if they are obese they know it and can do without your reminder, and likely they've struggled to lose the weight and just need a bit more support. You can either judge, and feel smug, or choose to help a friend.

Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. I'm not surprised bias is not falling.

hashkb 8y ago

And in many cases (not all) is a result of lifestyle choices, which are on the table for value judgment.

rhcom2 8y ago
Choices you can't assume to understand by just looking at someone though.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> lifestyle choices Where have we heard that before... I'm not saying that obesity isn't bad for you, that shit will kill you, nor is it not understood how you can lose weight. But I feel like morbid obesity isn't as simple a solution as that, just like homosexuality can't be "cured" by simply stopping having sex with your own gender.
jasonlotito 8y ago
So you feel it's fair and reasonable to be biased against someone with a disease?
- jazoom 8y ago
  A disease of their own causing, I think was their point. People are probably likely to be biased against someone with terrible dentition from not brushing, or from using methamphetamines.
  - jasonlotito 8y ago
    Then they can answer with a "Yes, it's okay to be biased against someone with a disease."
- babyslothzoo 8y ago
  What disease is it that causes someone to routinely consume far more calories than required for their body to operate? Excess food consumption is not a disease. Now you can certainly argue, and quite effectively, that excess food consumption is addictive behavior, nearly identical to drug or alcohol abuse, but it's not a disease. There are conscious decisions made, and repeated. You are eating the donuts. You are drinking the vodka. You are shooting the heroin. You are smoking the cigarette. The substances might be addictive, but there is still an active and continuously ongoing decision making process going on.
  - jasonlotito 8y ago
    Obesity is defined as a disease by the AMA. You clearly didn't know this. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/ama-recognizes-obesity-as-a-disease.html https://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/19/business/ama-recognizes-o...
    - jobigoud 8y ago
      You are talking past each other. Consider smokers. Addiction and pulmonary cancer is a disease. Smoking cigarettes everyday for decades is not per se but it's a cause. We tend to have special moral treatment for diseases that are preventable and caused by one's own behavior.
    - babyslothzoo 8y ago
      Oh yes of course, it's a "disease" that happened to put a chocolate bar into my mouth last night. You are so confident in your knowledge on this topic that you deflect and post an irrelevant link. Brilliant dialog and engagement, what a great debate we are having here. BRB my disease is inflicting me with a carb-loaded bagel this morning. You see, it is not simply that I am overconsuming calories for whatever reason (addictive / compulsive reward seeking behavior? No certainly not), instead the simple physics of weight gain and weight loss is a disease. Damnit, I dropped my iPhone on the floor. It must be that disease of physics known as gravity!
skywhopper 8y ago
Since you have no way to know why any particular individual is whatever weight they are, it would be wrong to judge them for that.

allwein 8y ago

I would tend to argue that institutional racism is also bad for your health and mental well-being.

oh_sigh 8y ago
Sure it is, but institutional racism isn't a trait or property of any individual that they have control over.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

> Unlike being of a certain skin color or sexual orientation being overweight is actually bad for your health and both mental and physical performance. That also would have been once an argument used against homosexuality.

hashkb 8y ago
Are you saying you don't believe it's unhealthy to be obese?
- greycol 8y ago
  No he is saying that homosexual behaviour was considered a health risk. There were plenty of bigots who even called aids punishment from god.
  - ivalm 8y ago
    But we do know homosexuality is not a health risk while obesity is very demonstrably a health risk. Are you really going to claim that obesity does not increase morbidity?
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      > But we do know homosexuality is not a health risk In the 80's it was considered fact that homosexuality was a health risk. AIDs was a huge concern.
      - bdibs 8y ago
        That was just fearmongering, we have countless studies today that state obesity is linked to a higher overall mortality rate.
        SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        It's not. Even today, 67% of new cases of AIDs are among gay and bisexual men[1]. I don't argue that obesity isn't bad for you, but the issue is more complex, and I don't think it's right to stigmatize people for it. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/hiv/group/msm/index.html

dbg31415 8y ago

"It's OK to hate them because they deserve to be hated," is your argument. Look, you aren't always wrong, but there tend to be a few factors at work here. The thing about people is that we aren't just who we are in the moment, we're the sum of our experiences to date. If you want people to change, you have to show people not only that there are alternatives, and how to obtain the alternatives, but lastly -- and most importantly -- why they should strive for those alternatives. If you're just a dick to them, it doesn't help anyone. Judging someone for being fat is about like judging someone for not being born rich. Eating and exercise habits are taught very young, and are very hard to change. It's very rare you see someone who is obese who wasn't put on that path by their parents. Rather than make disparaging comments, I'm sure you have a friend who you could invite out for a jog? Or over to your place for dinners once or twice a week? Not everyone has rewards wired in the same as you do, certainly if they are obese they know it and can do without your reminder, and likely they've struggled to lose the weight and just need a bit more support. You can either judge, and feel smug, or choose to help a friend.