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MongoDB's new license does not in any way prevent you from using MongoDB in whatever way you want. It simply requires you to, in some cases, release the changes

MongoDB's new license does not in any way prevent you from using MongoDB in whatever way you want. It simply requires you to, in some cases, release the changes you make to it publicly. You know, like the GPL did before companies found that a SaaS model let's you side step the release changes requirement.

dspillett 8y ago
>* like the GPL did before companies found that a SaaS model let's you side step the release changes requirement* Unless you use AGPL where the trigger for releasing your modifications is making the change available by any means (direct or otherwise) rather than with the standard GPL where the trigger is distribution of outputs compiled from the modified version.
- marcinzm 8y ago
  MongoDB did use the AGPL and still had issues with companies trying to argue they didn't need to release their changes. So they switched to their own license which was even more explicit on the matter.
  - GenghisSean 8y ago
    What problems did MongoDB run into? Can you link to any specific instances?
    - dspillett 8y ago
      I think it was specifically Amazon not releasing their changes. Maybe AGPL would cover them and force the release, but if Amazon stuck their heals down it would be an expensive legal fight. My guess is that it was just easier to change the licence used going forward to one that is more explicit and unambiguous about the matter. It was my understanding that AGPL was supposed to cover this specific type of use, so would also be interested in know if there is a real problem or if the licence change was simply to make the point without needing to go lawyer-to-lawyer with someone in possession of Amazon's resources.
      - detaro 8y ago
        I'd actually be kind of surprised if Amazon did actually use it - most of the big tech companies are allergic to AGPL, and e.g. Google does not allow it to be used at all, even internally.
        dspillett 8y ago
        > I'd actually be kind of surprised if Amazon did actually use it They did, which is how this discussion started. Until 4.0.4 / 4.1.5 MondoDB was released under the AGPL licence. Upon those releases it switched to SSPL (which IIRC is APL plus extra "commons clauses"). Amazon have stopped using MongoDB as they do not want to (or for some reason are unable to) abide by this new license, but had previously been happy to use the code under [their interpretation of] AGPLv3.
        detaro 8y ago
        I haven't seen a source clearly saying that Amazon had been using MongoDB - I thought the DocumentDB release last week was the first MongoDB product they offered? EDIT: and searching HN comments, there's multiple people claiming AGPL is entirely banned inside Amazon too
        dspillett 8y ago
        In which case I don't see why this is such a big issue. Amazon couldn't use it before the change because of their licence use policy, and can't after the change either. So the change represents no change in that respect. Implementing an interface compatible with something that you can't use for licensing reasons is no biggie. Other projects, Free/free/OS/commercial, do that sort of thing all the time. I wonder where the problem that drove the change actually was... RH dropping it from their distro is an issue related to the licence change, but I don't get the impression that was the intended target. I should probably find time to dig back into the details, as I feel I've missed something notable.
    - marcinzm 8y ago
      >What problems did MongoDB run into? Can you link to any specific instances? MongoDB does not specify, to quote their FAQ on the new license: >As a result, we have observed organizations, especially the international cloud vendors, begin to test the boundaries of the AGPL license.

dspillett 8y ago

>* like the GPL did before companies found that a SaaS model let's you side step the release changes requirement* Unless you use AGPL where the trigger for releasing your modifications is making the change available by any means (direct or otherwise) rather than with the standard GPL where the trigger is distribution of outputs compiled from the modified version.

marcinzm 8y ago
MongoDB did use the AGPL and still had issues with companies trying to argue they didn't need to release their changes. So they switched to their own license which was even more explicit on the matter.
- GenghisSean 8y ago
  What problems did MongoDB run into? Can you link to any specific instances?
  - dspillett 8y ago
    I think it was specifically Amazon not releasing their changes. Maybe AGPL would cover them and force the release, but if Amazon stuck their heals down it would be an expensive legal fight. My guess is that it was just easier to change the licence used going forward to one that is more explicit and unambiguous about the matter. It was my understanding that AGPL was supposed to cover this specific type of use, so would also be interested in know if there is a real problem or if the licence change was simply to make the point without needing to go lawyer-to-lawyer with someone in possession of Amazon's resources.
    - detaro 8y ago
      I'd actually be kind of surprised if Amazon did actually use it - most of the big tech companies are allergic to AGPL, and e.g. Google does not allow it to be used at all, even internally.
      - dspillett 8y ago
        > I'd actually be kind of surprised if Amazon did actually use it They did, which is how this discussion started. Until 4.0.4 / 4.1.5 MondoDB was released under the AGPL licence. Upon those releases it switched to SSPL (which IIRC is APL plus extra "commons clauses"). Amazon have stopped using MongoDB as they do not want to (or for some reason are unable to) abide by this new license, but had previously been happy to use the code under [their interpretation of] AGPLv3.
        detaro 8y ago
        I haven't seen a source clearly saying that Amazon had been using MongoDB - I thought the DocumentDB release last week was the first MongoDB product they offered? EDIT: and searching HN comments, there's multiple people claiming AGPL is entirely banned inside Amazon too
        dspillett 8y ago
        In which case I don't see why this is such a big issue. Amazon couldn't use it before the change because of their licence use policy, and can't after the change either. So the change represents no change in that respect. Implementing an interface compatible with something that you can't use for licensing reasons is no biggie. Other projects, Free/free/OS/commercial, do that sort of thing all the time. I wonder where the problem that drove the change actually was... RH dropping it from their distro is an issue related to the licence change, but I don't get the impression that was the intended target. I should probably find time to dig back into the details, as I feel I've missed something notable.
  - marcinzm 8y ago
    >What problems did MongoDB run into? Can you link to any specific instances? MongoDB does not specify, to quote their FAQ on the new license: >As a result, we have observed organizations, especially the international cloud vendors, begin to test the boundaries of the AGPL license.