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As a side note: I wish Rust would come to embedded development ASAP running a real time OS written in Rust. You can use massive Boost libraries and Qt framework

As a side note: I wish Rust would come to embedded development ASAP running a real time OS written in Rust. You can use massive Boost libraries and Qt frameworks on non-embedded systems with C/C++, but in embedded, there is no such luxury. I am new to it but it is painful and I wish to see a day where we have a complete LLVM based ARM compiler toolchain with Rust sitting on top. I think there were some blog posts about running Rust on STM32 but it is still very early.

nicoburns 8y ago
It is still pretty early, but if there's been quite a bit of progress this year. This is probably the closest to what you are looking for that exists at the moment: https://github.com/japaric/cortex-m-rtfm https://github.com/japaric/cortex-m-rtfm You can also follow the Rust Embedded Working Group blog if you wish: https://rust-embedded.github.io/blog/ https://rust-embedded.github.io/blog/
- fermienrico 8y ago
  Thank you for sharing, subscribed. As I read through the Rust Embedded Work Group manifesto, it is comforting to see the level of organizational skills, planning and vision of the team involved. Bravo. https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg
bluejekyll 8y ago
Have you looked at TockOS? https://www.tockos.org https://www.tockos.org I took a class in it about 2 years ago now, it was really cool. I’m not an embedded developer though, so not sure of your needs here.
- vardump 8y ago
  Ooh that looks pretty interesting! Tock appears to be a Rust based embedded OS, so relevant to this discussion. https://github.com/tock/tock https://github.com/tock/tock
wyldfire 8y ago
> I wish Rust would come to embedded development ASAP running a real time OS written in Rust. You want someone to write a Rust RTOS? Or would it suffice for a vendor to release a BSP with Rust support? IMO your current RTOS vendor can (and should!) offer this. Lots of existing RTOS companies will vendor a gcc or clang toolchain for their customers. The fact that C and C++ are well specified independent of their implementation really helps, though. But the baseline rust toolchain already provides a lot of what's needed. They "just" need to offer integration with their C library, designate llvm triple(s), etc. If your RTOS vendor offers support for C and C++ already, chances are you can write rust for your target already. Unfortunately you'll need to stick to no_std until that BSP shows up though. :)
- bluejekyll 8y ago
  BSP, board support package. I had to look that up, seem like what you’re talking about here.
  - wyldfire 8y ago
    Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. It's a soup-to-nuts working+tested configuration of a board, bootstrap code, examples that exercise board features, etc. IIRC this is common for chip/computer/board/RTOS vendors to provide.
SlowRobotAhead 8y ago
Get used to the idea that embedded is 15 years behind PC. Which is initially frustrating but if you step back is kind of a good thing. I’d also like to see Rust make it’s way into embedded. C support for things like data serialization or RPC for interfacing to web stuff is limited, people just don’t port it to C. And C++ doesn’t thrill me in terms of its non-deterministic garbage handling and difficult to debug nature. Rust though, seems modern and still safe, but I looked over the crates for embedded it’s prstty slim pickings! When I see mfgs pushing out their own Rust libs, or a professional IDE with support I can buy that uses the Rust compiler, I’ll give it a try. Until then, it’s clearly hobbiest-only.
- sidcom 8y ago
  Non deterministic garbage handling doesn't sound right in combination with C++. You have to do it your self. And you can make it deterministic.
- mlindner 8y ago
  C++ has deterministic garbage collection.
  - intea 8y ago
    C++ does not have garbage collection of any sorts. Objects leave the scope and are destroyed, however the order in which they are destroyed is not defined by the standard.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      C++ has a garbage collection interface API since ISO C++11, it is up to the respective implementation to provide an optional implementation.
jamesmunns 8y ago
Hey, I saw that links to the Embedded Working Group[0], TockOS[1], and others have been posted already, and those are great places to start! My company, Ferrous Systems[2], is also focused on embedded systems development in Rust, and we are already helping companies both with embedded linux and bare-metal/RTOS projects in Rust. We're also running a conference in Berlin on April 26th-29th called OxidizeConf[3] if you are interested in learning more about what is already going on in the Embedded Rust world :) [0]: https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg [1]: https://www.tockos.org/ https://www.tockos.org/ [2]: https://ferrous-systems.com https://ferrous-systems.com [3]: https://oxidizeconf.com https://oxidizeconf.com

nicoburns 8y ago

It is still pretty early, but if there's been quite a bit of progress this year. This is probably the closest to what you are looking for that exists at the moment: https://github.com/japaric/cortex-m-rtfm https://github.com/japaric/cortex-m-rtfm You can also follow the Rust Embedded Working Group blog if you wish: https://rust-embedded.github.io/blog/ https://rust-embedded.github.io/blog/

fermienrico 8y ago
Thank you for sharing, subscribed. As I read through the Rust Embedded Work Group manifesto, it is comforting to see the level of organizational skills, planning and vision of the team involved. Bravo. https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg

bluejekyll 8y ago

Have you looked at TockOS? https://www.tockos.org https://www.tockos.org I took a class in it about 2 years ago now, it was really cool. I’m not an embedded developer though, so not sure of your needs here.

vardump 8y ago
Ooh that looks pretty interesting! Tock appears to be a Rust based embedded OS, so relevant to this discussion. https://github.com/tock/tock https://github.com/tock/tock

wyldfire 8y ago

> I wish Rust would come to embedded development ASAP running a real time OS written in Rust. You want someone to write a Rust RTOS? Or would it suffice for a vendor to release a BSP with Rust support? IMO your current RTOS vendor can (and should!) offer this. Lots of existing RTOS companies will vendor a gcc or clang toolchain for their customers. The fact that C and C++ are well specified independent of their implementation really helps, though. But the baseline rust toolchain already provides a lot of what's needed. They "just" need to offer integration with their C library, designate llvm triple(s), etc. If your RTOS vendor offers support for C and C++ already, chances are you can write rust for your target already. Unfortunately you'll need to stick to no_std until that BSP shows up though. :)

bluejekyll 8y ago
BSP, board support package. I had to look that up, seem like what you’re talking about here.
- wyldfire 8y ago
  Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. It's a soup-to-nuts working+tested configuration of a board, bootstrap code, examples that exercise board features, etc. IIRC this is common for chip/computer/board/RTOS vendors to provide.

SlowRobotAhead 8y ago

Get used to the idea that embedded is 15 years behind PC. Which is initially frustrating but if you step back is kind of a good thing. I’d also like to see Rust make it’s way into embedded. C support for things like data serialization or RPC for interfacing to web stuff is limited, people just don’t port it to C. And C++ doesn’t thrill me in terms of its non-deterministic garbage handling and difficult to debug nature. Rust though, seems modern and still safe, but I looked over the crates for embedded it’s prstty slim pickings! When I see mfgs pushing out their own Rust libs, or a professional IDE with support I can buy that uses the Rust compiler, I’ll give it a try. Until then, it’s clearly hobbiest-only.

sidcom 8y ago
Non deterministic garbage handling doesn't sound right in combination with C++. You have to do it your self. And you can make it deterministic.
mlindner 8y ago
C++ has deterministic garbage collection.
- intea 8y ago
  C++ does not have garbage collection of any sorts. Objects leave the scope and are destroyed, however the order in which they are destroyed is not defined by the standard.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    C++ has a garbage collection interface API since ISO C++11, it is up to the respective implementation to provide an optional implementation.

jamesmunns 8y ago

Hey, I saw that links to the Embedded Working Group[0], TockOS[1], and others have been posted already, and those are great places to start! My company, Ferrous Systems[2], is also focused on embedded systems development in Rust, and we are already helping companies both with embedded linux and bare-metal/RTOS projects in Rust. We're also running a conference in Berlin on April 26th-29th called OxidizeConf[3] if you are interested in learning more about what is already going on in the Embedded Rust world :) [0]: https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg [1]: https://www.tockos.org/ https://www.tockos.org/ [2]: https://ferrous-systems.com https://ferrous-systems.com [3]: https://oxidizeconf.com https://oxidizeconf.com