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You seem to be either unaware of the details of the Grievance Studies project or are deliberately minimizing it. They didn't target one journal, they targeted

You seem to be either unaware of the details of the Grievance Studies project or are deliberately minimizing it. They didn't target one journal, they targeted multiple. 7 papers were published and 5 others were in the process of being iterated on, all taken seriously. They cited numerous existing papers to jump off of and build their ridiculous premises. Such as the idea that white students should be chained up in class to understand privilege or that obesity is great. These papers were lauded as exciting contributions and one was singled out with an award. This work is nearly indistinguishable from real papers in the field, and was constructed to justify ridiculous conclusions, working backwards to find precedent in the fields in question. That's what makes them qualify as Grievance Studies. There are no real hypotheses being tested, it's just the academic laundering of ideology. Do you seriously think someone could spend a year just learning the lingo of a real STEM discipline and get similarly farcical work published? With no real results required? This isn't about real sociology, linguistics, literature or psychology. The fact that these disciplines are actively trying to break into STEM by claiming a necessity for feminist geography or astronomy really says enough. They're not happy to just sit in their own departments, doing "research" and producing an inbred body of work, they want to compel the hard sciences to take them seriously. Remember the C+equality parody that went around a few years ago and which ticked off enough gender activists to get it banned from github? Well, they were just lampooning a real thesis someone had written, about how feminism could enrich logic and coding, because masculinity focused too much on rigid categories. This empress already has no clothes.

gdy 8y ago
"Do you seriously think someone could spend a year just learning the lingo of a real STEM discipline and get similarly farcical work published?" As a matter of fact, yes. Google scigen, mathgen - you will find the stories of how computer-generated nonsensical papers were accepted by conferences and low quality journals. For example: http://thatsmathematics.com/blog/archives/185 http://thatsmathematics.com/blog/archives/185
- js8 8y ago
  Have the authors of these non-sensical papers consulted the ethical panel, whether to conduct the experiment? It seems to me (as was actually pointed out by the hoaxing authors themselves) that either you can take what they did seriously, or not, but not both.
  - gdy 8y ago
    I'm with Dawkins on that: "If the members of your committee of inquiry object to the very idea of satire as a form of creative expression, they should come out honestly and say so. But to pretend that this is a matter of publishing false data is so obviously ridiculous that one cannot help suspecting an ulterior motive." In my opinion, this equally applies to allegations of unethical experimentation.
YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago
>> Do you seriously think someone could spend a year just learning the lingo of a real STEM discipline and get similarly farcical work published? I think it would be possible to publish a paper in one of the large machine learning venues with completely made up results and techniques, that nonetheless looked very impressive. One would have to take a bit of care to make the paper look legitimate, in other words, copy the style and conventions of a machine learning paper- but it's not that hard to do. After all, a great deal of machine learning research is, well, not quite made up, but for example there are important details left out of papers, experiments are poorly described, data is not available, results are interpreted in fanciful manner, etc etc. Of course, such a "hoax" would be immediately condemned by the whole field because results would have to be fabricated. Then again, that is what Boghossian is accused of.
KarenSatantsby 8y ago
Holy pooping Platypuses this is one of the best pieces of tldr for something I have seen. High Praises and thanks. You are a personal hero for a day

gdy 8y ago

"Do you seriously think someone could spend a year just learning the lingo of a real STEM discipline and get similarly farcical work published?" As a matter of fact, yes. Google scigen, mathgen - you will find the stories of how computer-generated nonsensical papers were accepted by conferences and low quality journals. For example: http://thatsmathematics.com/blog/archives/185 http://thatsmathematics.com/blog/archives/185

js8 8y ago
Have the authors of these non-sensical papers consulted the ethical panel, whether to conduct the experiment? It seems to me (as was actually pointed out by the hoaxing authors themselves) that either you can take what they did seriously, or not, but not both.
- gdy 8y ago
  I'm with Dawkins on that: "If the members of your committee of inquiry object to the very idea of satire as a form of creative expression, they should come out honestly and say so. But to pretend that this is a matter of publishing false data is so obviously ridiculous that one cannot help suspecting an ulterior motive." In my opinion, this equally applies to allegations of unethical experimentation.

YeGoblynQueenne 8y ago

>> Do you seriously think someone could spend a year just learning the lingo of a real STEM discipline and get similarly farcical work published? I think it would be possible to publish a paper in one of the large machine learning venues with completely made up results and techniques, that nonetheless looked very impressive. One would have to take a bit of care to make the paper look legitimate, in other words, copy the style and conventions of a machine learning paper- but it's not that hard to do. After all, a great deal of machine learning research is, well, not quite made up, but for example there are important details left out of papers, experiments are poorly described, data is not available, results are interpreted in fanciful manner, etc etc. Of course, such a "hoax" would be immediately condemned by the whole field because results would have to be fabricated. Then again, that is what Boghossian is accused of.

KarenSatantsby 8y ago

Holy pooping Platypuses this is one of the best pieces of tldr for something I have seen. High Praises and thanks. You are a personal hero for a day