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I'm still really disappointed that Ember gave up on trying to compete with libraries like React on bundle size. I loved my experience with Ember, and I really l

I'm still really disappointed that Ember gave up on trying to compete with libraries like React on bundle size. I loved my experience with Ember, and I really like what they've done recently, but the fact that out of the box it's several times larger than an equivalent set of React libraries makes it hard to justify. It's super awesome if you're building complex, ambitious desktop web apps, but for simple, mobile-focused progressive web apps it just doesn't seem worth the extra bytes.

addicted 8y ago
Isn’t GlimmerJS their React equivalent?
lyime 8y ago
React and Ember.js is not an apple to apple comparison. React is a UI library, Ember.js is a framework. Glimmer would be a better comparison.
- dstaley 8y ago
  Right, which is exactly why I said "an equivalent set of React libraries" as opposed to just React.
  - true_religion 8y ago
    Ember as you guessed, is not for simple apps. So an equivalent set of React libraries would have to do everything that Ember does---even when you are building an app that does not require all those parts. It's not a fair comparison to talk about a simple mobile-only app, and complain that Ember is too large for bloating the bundle with things you will not use.
    - dstaley 8y ago
      > bloating the bundle with things you will not use The problem isn't that Ember has a lot of things you don't use; it's that the things that are there are much larger than their React counterparts. In terms of actual functionality, Ember doesn't provide anything that React+React Router doesn't. The difference in bundle size arises from the different ways Ember accomplishes the same end goal. This differences make it more suited to desktop apps loaded over high speed internet connections. My point is that as someone who's building PWAs designed to load as quickly as possible, it's unfortunate that Ember isn't even a possible contender due to the minimum bundle size.
      - true_religion 8y ago
        I thought Ember provided: - Observable objects and enumerables - Models with a relationship framework - Controllers - A dependency injection framework - A templating system In addition the router also provides: - Parsing of query strings in the router (React-Router does not do that) - Explicit loading states - Asynchronous routing Whereas React-Router + React provides: - A router - A view layer I also don't understand your complaint about PWAs and bundle size. Aren't PWAs supposed to fully cache all the Javascript after the first load so bundle size should be less important? And the competition to a PWA is a downloadable mobile app that's often many dozens of megabytes.

addicted 8y ago

Isn’t GlimmerJS their React equivalent?

lyime 8y ago

React and Ember.js is not an apple to apple comparison. React is a UI library, Ember.js is a framework. Glimmer would be a better comparison.

dstaley 8y ago
Right, which is exactly why I said "an equivalent set of React libraries" as opposed to just React.
- true_religion 8y ago
  Ember as you guessed, is not for simple apps. So an equivalent set of React libraries would have to do everything that Ember does---even when you are building an app that does not require all those parts. It's not a fair comparison to talk about a simple mobile-only app, and complain that Ember is too large for bloating the bundle with things you will not use.
  - dstaley 8y ago
    > bloating the bundle with things you will not use The problem isn't that Ember has a lot of things you don't use; it's that the things that are there are much larger than their React counterparts. In terms of actual functionality, Ember doesn't provide anything that React+React Router doesn't. The difference in bundle size arises from the different ways Ember accomplishes the same end goal. This differences make it more suited to desktop apps loaded over high speed internet connections. My point is that as someone who's building PWAs designed to load as quickly as possible, it's unfortunate that Ember isn't even a possible contender due to the minimum bundle size.
    - true_religion 8y ago
      I thought Ember provided: - Observable objects and enumerables - Models with a relationship framework - Controllers - A dependency injection framework - A templating system In addition the router also provides: - Parsing of query strings in the router (React-Router does not do that) - Explicit loading states - Asynchronous routing Whereas React-Router + React provides: - A router - A view layer I also don't understand your complaint about PWAs and bundle size. Aren't PWAs supposed to fully cache all the Javascript after the first load so bundle size should be less important? And the competition to a PWA is a downloadable mobile app that's often many dozens of megabytes.