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Is ember still used? I always only hear that ppl nowadays use react, vue or angular. What does ember differently/better?
by amonsch 8y ago
Is ember still used? I always only hear that ppl nowadays use react, vue or angular. What does ember differently/better?
- Waterluvian 8y agoI think many ember users use it because it's what they know. And for most projects, any of these choices, including ember, will do the job just fine. There's value in using tools you're already proficient in. And that's the thing that rubs me about framework debates: it's like we're all debating what screw head is best (Robertson, btw).
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- ricketycricket 8y agoPersonally, I still have ember apps from 2015 that are now on v3.6 and have had pretty much painless updates. I have used react professionally, but used Ember when starting a new app this past fall. I just trust them to keep things stable over time and I don't have the ability or desire to spend a lot of time bikeshedding my setup. It's not glamorous, but I do get a lot done and can keep things working for years.
- aarpmcgee 8y agoThe upgrades in the 2.x range were pretty demoralizing for myself and my team. Have they gotten any better?
- vmware505 8y agoIt is usually automatic, with running one command: https://yoember.com/emberjs/how-to-keep-your-ember-js-project-up-to-date/ https://yoember.com/emberjs/how-to-keep-your-ember-js-projec...
- Macha 8y agoIn theory yes, but for larger apps, especially those that use addons, definitely not.
- Rifu 8y agoThe tooling around upgrading has definitely gotten a lot better, though if you’re carrying around a relatively older codebase there’s a potentially thorny deprecation coming up in the future
- k__ 8y agoThe 2.x were the reason I many people I know dropped it.
- snewcomer24 8y agoI would say that for most frameworks/libraries. Keeping up with the Joneses is hard and Ember has taken particular care in both pioneering new ideas and bringing in new ideas from other domains and libraries. I'm just grateful that all the apps I have worked on since 1.13 have not been painless to upgrade, but have been totally worth it. Over the long term, stability, ergonomics and performance have been improving steadily and there has been a nice community around to help. That is about all I can ask for. Continuous improvement + nice people == recipe for software success over the long term.
- jameskilton 8y agoProbably much more than you would think. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle Ember is firmly in the "Plateau of Productivity". It's stable, supported, but no longer the "new thing" so you don't hear much about it.
- k__ 8y agoThe only stuff I heard was that there are many outdated Ember projects that owners need to be updated. My flat mate did a few projects stuck on Ember 1.4 that needed to be updated to 2.0 last year. Somehow Ember devs loved to use private APIs, so most of the apps broke on an update and much had to be re-written.
- lucisferre 8y agoI'm not sure how linking to an article about the hype cycle can be considered evidence of Ember's maturity relative to its peers. Ember's 1.0 release was 2013 which is the same year React was announced. Yes Ember has earlier history as Sproutcore going back to 2011, but Facebook was using React internally since 2011 as well. I'd also argue that Ember 2.0 was pretty different from 1.0. Angular is older, going back to 2009, but as 2.0 is a total rewrite as well as departure from where they started out I'm willing to let that one go. (It is also a complete tire fire so let's just ignore it altogether). VueJS is arguably the "new kid". But really only just barely. The first release was Feb 2014. I'd hardly consider Vue immature at this point though. I really don't see how one can argue it has a tangible maturity advantage here. I also think that most of the newer generation of SPA frameworks have learned lessons both from the previous generations and their peers (with the exception of Angular perhaps).
- gwright 8y agoI didn't read that as evidence, simply a link to define the term "Plateau of Productivity".
- hardwaresofton 8y agoEmber is still used (and should be) though it's not on the hype train these days for a few reasons: - It is a fully considered (if not well-considered) framework which is great for large teams - It keeps up with other libraries and best practices by adapting Unfortunately, the best thing about Ember is also the worst thing -- changes can happen so fast that it becomes necessarily hard to update if you stop keeping up with it. Ember's only competitor in my mind is Angular in the current landscape -- assuming people do not want to bolt together a vue+vuex+vue-router setup.
- stocktech 8y agoI've used Ember in a large non-tech organization. Ember's particular way of doing things, being opinionated, allowed us to focus on building the logic out instead of worry about secondary decisions: file structure, routing, data stores, build pipelines, etc. Personally, I feel Ember is best suited for the enterprise world. It's a slower moving framework focused on backwards compatibility that remains relatively similar over the years. I feel slightly insulated from the rapid changes in the front end world which allows me and my team the ability to focus on the business. Of course, I push my team to understand what's going on outside of Ember. I've definitely taken things away from React and Redux. But having to maintain dozens of apps (and growing), I couldn't imagine the technical debt we'd have if we chose a different framework. Our repos would be scattered with the latest and hottest fad and changing standards.
- vmware505 8y agoIt is one of the most commonly used framework in serious industry projects. For example in New Zealand so many important websites and services built with Ember. General Election system, nation wide Social Service tool, major banks web apps, main television website, second largest city public transport website, etc.
- locusm 8y agoI thought the Kiwis went all in on Silverstripe??
- seattle_spring 8y ago> It is one of the most commonly used framework in serious industry projects I'd love to see a source for this, because I do not believe it for a second.
- vmware505 8y agoIf you have Ember Inspector in your Chrome, you can see it. - Main TV Channel (Close to million user per day): https://www.tvnz.co.nz/ https://www.tvnz.co.nz/ - Largest bank app (Half of the population using it): https://www.anz.co.nz/personal/ https://www.anz.co.nz/personal/ - Other bank: https://www.co-operativebank.co.nz/ https://www.co-operativebank.co.nz/ - Christchurch's public transport website: http://www.metroinfo.co.nz/Pages/default.aspx http://www.metroinfo.co.nz/Pages/default.aspx - Ministry of Social Development web app (half million active user): https://my.msd.govt.nz/login https://my.msd.govt.nz/login - Election System app is not public.
- seattle_spring 8y agoThose are examples of sites that use Ember, but far from proof that it's one of the most used frameworks.
- Macha 8y agoOn a team that uses it. It's... fine. If you know Ember, you can build a reasonable app pretty quickly. If you have a team that knows Ember and likes it, there's not going to be giant gains to switching to something newer. Certainly not enough to justify a rewrite. The integration between the framework and Ember Data is nice if you have an API that natively works by the JSON API standard that Ember Data expects. It's big selling point is it's more of a one stop shop than something like React and Vue where you have to bring your own data layer and router etc. However... if it was up to me, I wouldn't use it again: If your API doesn't emit JSON API, expect to write a lot of serializer/adapter code. The Ember object model breaks browser debugging (and no, the Ember Inspector doesn't make up for it, you can't dig down into objects there, the best you can do is send it to $E, then manually issue $E.get() calls). You end up looking in foo._internalModel._data to get a decent look at what the data actually is. The build tools are slow. Broccoli still cannot output sourcemaps which map back to real source. The framework has strong opinions about app layout, based on Rails. It groups by concept. So you have folders for models, controllers, components etc. While you can nest within it (so you can have controllers/my-feature/{a,b}.js and components/my-feature/{c,d}.js), it still ends up with your code for a feature all over the place. I'd much rather have my-feature/{controllers/{a,b},components/{c,d}}.js and have all code for a feature in one place. Pods were supposed to fix this, but have been abandoned. The public API is too prone to spitting out objects that only have private APIs. e.g. look at adapter.createRecord (https://emberjs.com/api/ember-data/3.7/classes/DS.Adapter/methods/createRecord?anchor=createRecord https://emberjs.com/api/ember-data/3.7/classes/DS.Adapter/me...) . You get based the data in a DS.Snapshot. What public supported actions are available with a Snapshot? (None: https://emberjs.com/api/ember-data/3.7/classes/DS.Snapshot https://emberjs.com/api/ember-data/3.7/classes/DS.Snapshot). RecordArray in the past was similar, as were the factory and transition APIs. Because of the above point, many popular addons are tied to APIs that are considered internal and prone to breakage. This means while the Ember team advertise "Just follow the deprecations, you can update with ease", you really can't. Your addons will break and will need to be updated in parallel and if they've updated their APIs at the same time, you're kind of SOL.
- froglegs 8y agoWhat version are you on? Aside from existing “pod” structure, the newer module unification feature follows a structure more in line with what you describe. Which addons are problematic? I don’t doubt they exist but seems like any large/complex framework will suffer that problem. EmberData is a separate project from emberjs core. How does vue+vuex+vue router or equiv react setup avoid same issues?
- luckydata 8y agoLinkedin is largely built on Ember. There's ample gnashing of teeth internally about that but that's what it is now.
- vmware505 8y agoYou mean they would use something else instead? Most of the project who use Ember, they love it, and they would not use other tool. For example Intercom in Dublin is a huge supporter of Ember.js and they are big fun of the framework.
- luckydata 8y agoMany don't like Ember and the majority of front end engineers think not working in React is a problem as far as it relates to resume building.
- ravenstine 8y agoTravis-CI uses Ember.