4 ms·

The developers I know are mostly trying to be founder level at a startup. I actually feel sorry every time I run into a company trying to hire a Rails develope

by aneth 16y ago

The developers I know are mostly trying to be founder level at a startup. I actually feel sorry every time I run into a company trying to hire a Rails developer because I feel their pain. What's the solution for you companies desperate to hire? In my opinion, your outlook on equity needs to change. It's regular practice to offer a "rock star" developer 0.25% of your pre-diluted shares when you have $2M dollars in the bank. I've had this debate a number of times with arrogant founders and been told how that's just the way it is - investors this, B round that, $1B exit blah. Fine - but your offer is not appealing to me. I can make $100K+/year consulting part time, usually with a small equity stake, plus have a founder share of my own startup. Why would I take $100k plus 0.1% to work 12 hours a day at your startup? Offer several percent, maybe 10% if you don't have a product yet. Get a few good people committed to your company on the inside. This is particularly true if you are very early or have a less "cool" startup. You are going to wallow in crappy developer misery and your product will fail if you don't have awesome techs who are TRULY dedicated to your vision.

mindsetlabs 16y ago
This is a realization that I hope business founders will soon come to realize, because without the engineers there is no company, there is no innovation or product to sell. So i agree, and developers should get equity!
GFischer 16y ago
"What's the solution for you companies desperate to hire?" How about looking abroad? I know, it's fraught with perils, but as someone from "abroad" from the U.S. point of view, it needn't be that bad. And your dollars will go a LONG way in hiring top talent (of course, you need someone local or whom you trust to choose the top talent. 90% of the local programmers are crappy too!).
- illumin8 16y ago
  You can't hire an H1B unless you are willing to document that you were unable to find local talent that had the required skill set. HR departments usually work around this by wording the job requirement in such a way that only their hand-picked H1B applicant has every exact skill. "Oh, you need a Python/Django/Ruby/Java guy with 2 years .NET? I just happen to have a resume with that exact skill set in front of me; so strange that we wrote the job opening like that...<wink wink>" Expect to pay about $10-20K extra just to hire an H1B because of all of this extra paperwork and documentation, as well as hope he wins the H1B lottery.
  - GFischer 16y ago
    I was thinking more along the lines of hiring people or teams for working remotely (which has its own set of problems, but it's still cheaper and could get better talent).
  - kaiwren 16y ago
    Leave just the core business people in the first world and move everyone else to the third world. Finding good engineers is a lot harder, though, and they won't be as cheap as you'd think. In India, for example, you can expect to pay roughly 1/3 of what you'd pay in the US for a good dev. SlideShare.net does this to the best of my knowledge.
  - hga 16y ago
    WRT to the lottery: it hasn't been so competitive lately: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Quotas_and_changes_in_quotas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Quotas_and_changes_in... E.g. (note that the fun begins on April 1): FY 2009, quota used up in 7 days before beginning the lottery (and as you allude to, this sort of thing used to be the norm). FY 2010, quota not used up until December 21, 2009. FY 2011, quota projected to used up right about now.
- aneth 16y ago
  Looking abroad can be a good solution in some cases, but it generally slows development time, quality, and is never as cheap as it seems. Also employees in another country will generally not be part of the culture of a company and thus are less loyal and committed. A startup needs dedicated engineers who understand the whole problem. If the founders don't qualify, there need to be major stakeholders who do.

by aneth 16y ago

mindsetlabs 16y ago

This is a realization that I hope business founders will soon come to realize, because without the engineers there is no company, there is no innovation or product to sell. So i agree, and developers should get equity!

GFischer 16y ago

"What's the solution for you companies desperate to hire?" How about looking abroad? I know, it's fraught with perils, but as someone from "abroad" from the U.S. point of view, it needn't be that bad. And your dollars will go a LONG way in hiring top talent (of course, you need someone local or whom you trust to choose the top talent. 90% of the local programmers are crappy too!).

illumin8 16y ago
You can't hire an H1B unless you are willing to document that you were unable to find local talent that had the required skill set. HR departments usually work around this by wording the job requirement in such a way that only their hand-picked H1B applicant has every exact skill. "Oh, you need a Python/Django/Ruby/Java guy with 2 years .NET? I just happen to have a resume with that exact skill set in front of me; so strange that we wrote the job opening like that...<wink wink>" Expect to pay about $10-20K extra just to hire an H1B because of all of this extra paperwork and documentation, as well as hope he wins the H1B lottery.
- GFischer 16y ago
  I was thinking more along the lines of hiring people or teams for working remotely (which has its own set of problems, but it's still cheaper and could get better talent).
- kaiwren 16y ago
  Leave just the core business people in the first world and move everyone else to the third world. Finding good engineers is a lot harder, though, and they won't be as cheap as you'd think. In India, for example, you can expect to pay roughly 1/3 of what you'd pay in the US for a good dev. SlideShare.net does this to the best of my knowledge.
- hga 16y ago
  WRT to the lottery: it hasn't been so competitive lately: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Quotas_and_changes_in_quotas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-1B_visa#Quotas_and_changes_in... E.g. (note that the fun begins on April 1): FY 2009, quota used up in 7 days before beginning the lottery (and as you allude to, this sort of thing used to be the norm). FY 2010, quota not used up until December 21, 2009. FY 2011, quota projected to used up right about now.
aneth 16y ago
Looking abroad can be a good solution in some cases, but it generally slows development time, quality, and is never as cheap as it seems. Also employees in another country will generally not be part of the culture of a company and thus are less loyal and committed. A startup needs dedicated engineers who understand the whole problem. If the founders don't qualify, there need to be major stakeholders who do.