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> and make it clear that if they do give hints (no matter how bad we do) they won't get paid. That sounds a bit harsh. The escape rooms I have been at all made

> and make it clear that if they do give hints (no matter how bad we do) they won't get paid. That sounds a bit harsh. The escape rooms I have been at all made it clear that the objective is to finish as fast as possible but if you get stuck on things and it seems unlikely you’ll make it on the hour they will give you clues. It’s just part of the deal, you will almost always finish, and “winning” vs losing is a question of how fast you finish. This doesn’t apply to competitive rooms of cause. Where I actually don’t know how they handle clues as that has never been an issue for my groups in those room.

nothrabannosir 8y ago
>> and make it clear that if they do give hints (no matter how bad we do) they won't get paid. > That sounds a bit harsh. He’s negotiating in advance, not punishing them. It’s about making it clear what you want for your money, and allowing the other party to make a choice. This is how negotiations work. “Hi I’d like a room here but I have a special request: don’t call me ‘sir’. It’s non negotiable; if you do I won’t pay you.” Either: “ok that’s fine.” or: “sorry, I’m afraid we can’t do that, sir.” are ok. But once you’ve accepted, that’s it. Negotiating. It’s the foundation of trade. I wish it didn’t have such a bad rap.
- talltimtom 8y ago
  Hi, I’d like a ticket for the new transformers movie, but id there are any explosions I want my money back. Sure that’s just negotiation, but in that case I’d argue just as well that the costumer is being unresonable because he has expectations of the experience that simply don’t align with what is being offered. And if the establishment decides not to take your business because of the unusual request, which is wierdly dependent on how things play out I would not hold it against them. As for not wanting clues, you can just tell them not to provide them and they wont. No need for the weird conditional payment option. You’re taking away a timeslot no matter what and costing them money, if you want to do that you need to pay, wanting special conditions on that payment is “rather harsh”.
  - FakeComments 8y ago
    The person said they asked, and the service provided clues anyway. That’s what caused the comment to tying payment with actually providing the right service. So “you can just” clearly isn’t true, at least in that case. Also, the premise that a customer not wanting clues to a puzzle is unreasonable, or anything like conditioning on a pre-recorded movie, is a pretty questionable — to the point I think it’s just wrong. Having a puzzle proactively spoiled by staff is nothing like that, at all. Refusing to pay if staff ruin the experience by taking actions you ask them not to is actually standard in service industries.
  - nothrabannosir 8y ago
    I feel like we are in utter, complete agreement. At least for the first two paragraphs. As for the third.. Is making payment conditional on the service provided, weird? I'm not sure how else you're supposed to negotiate. "Here are my demands, but if you don't meet them I'll pay anyway."
- Para2016 8y ago
  He sounds a bit silly. Escape rooms are group events, he's not the only customer in the room. If the rest of the group wants hints (it's not fun to just be stuck on a clue) then they will give hints. One customer throwing a tantrum on Yelp afterward probably sucks though. Can't please everyone, especially not people like him.
  - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
    > He sounds a bit silly. feel free to address me directly I'm right here. Also you're right I am silly. Silly silly silly a very stupid person. I've got some incredibly silly way of looking at the world. I am the Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov of HN. If you want to insult me please use my email from the profile and send me a message directly. But don't dress up your insults by talking about me instead of talking directly at me. thanks EDIT: also you suggest I leave yelp or other online reviews to bully companies. I don't even have a phone. Instead I talk to the person directly whether it's a restaurant or whatever else. Even they piss me off I'd never leave a review. I am not a fucking coward. Please speak for yourself and don't put things in my mouth that I haven't done or suggested.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  thanks, yes negotiation was my intention. I wouldn't word it as harshly (the tone makes the music) but tell them beforehand that this would be my expectation and condition for engaging in a transaction. my phrasing would be more like "hey I had some really bad experience before because a/b/c and I'd expect absolutely no help regardless how bad we do etc..." and if this happens we would break from finishing the game immediately and walk out (as it is imho like cheating ourselves (which I wouldn't pay any money for). I'd also make clear that in case we can't finish that it's actually a reason for us to come back. in any case it would be strong enough worded so that they get it (without sounding threatening)

nothrabannosir 8y ago

>> and make it clear that if they do give hints (no matter how bad we do) they won't get paid. > That sounds a bit harsh. He’s negotiating in advance, not punishing them. It’s about making it clear what you want for your money, and allowing the other party to make a choice. This is how negotiations work. “Hi I’d like a room here but I have a special request: don’t call me ‘sir’. It’s non negotiable; if you do I won’t pay you.” Either: “ok that’s fine.” or: “sorry, I’m afraid we can’t do that, sir.” are ok. But once you’ve accepted, that’s it. Negotiating. It’s the foundation of trade. I wish it didn’t have such a bad rap.

talltimtom 8y ago
Hi, I’d like a ticket for the new transformers movie, but id there are any explosions I want my money back. Sure that’s just negotiation, but in that case I’d argue just as well that the costumer is being unresonable because he has expectations of the experience that simply don’t align with what is being offered. And if the establishment decides not to take your business because of the unusual request, which is wierdly dependent on how things play out I would not hold it against them. As for not wanting clues, you can just tell them not to provide them and they wont. No need for the weird conditional payment option. You’re taking away a timeslot no matter what and costing them money, if you want to do that you need to pay, wanting special conditions on that payment is “rather harsh”.
- FakeComments 8y ago
  The person said they asked, and the service provided clues anyway. That’s what caused the comment to tying payment with actually providing the right service. So “you can just” clearly isn’t true, at least in that case. Also, the premise that a customer not wanting clues to a puzzle is unreasonable, or anything like conditioning on a pre-recorded movie, is a pretty questionable — to the point I think it’s just wrong. Having a puzzle proactively spoiled by staff is nothing like that, at all. Refusing to pay if staff ruin the experience by taking actions you ask them not to is actually standard in service industries.
- nothrabannosir 8y ago
  I feel like we are in utter, complete agreement. At least for the first two paragraphs. As for the third.. Is making payment conditional on the service provided, weird? I'm not sure how else you're supposed to negotiate. "Here are my demands, but if you don't meet them I'll pay anyway."
Para2016 8y ago
He sounds a bit silly. Escape rooms are group events, he's not the only customer in the room. If the rest of the group wants hints (it's not fun to just be stuck on a clue) then they will give hints. One customer throwing a tantrum on Yelp afterward probably sucks though. Can't please everyone, especially not people like him.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  > He sounds a bit silly. feel free to address me directly I'm right here. Also you're right I am silly. Silly silly silly a very stupid person. I've got some incredibly silly way of looking at the world. I am the Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov of HN. If you want to insult me please use my email from the profile and send me a message directly. But don't dress up your insults by talking about me instead of talking directly at me. thanks EDIT: also you suggest I leave yelp or other online reviews to bully companies. I don't even have a phone. Instead I talk to the person directly whether it's a restaurant or whatever else. Even they piss me off I'd never leave a review. I am not a fucking coward. Please speak for yourself and don't put things in my mouth that I haven't done or suggested.
DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
thanks, yes negotiation was my intention. I wouldn't word it as harshly (the tone makes the music) but tell them beforehand that this would be my expectation and condition for engaging in a transaction. my phrasing would be more like "hey I had some really bad experience before because a/b/c and I'd expect absolutely no help regardless how bad we do etc..." and if this happens we would break from finishing the game immediately and walk out (as it is imho like cheating ourselves (which I wouldn't pay any money for). I'd also make clear that in case we can't finish that it's actually a reason for us to come back. in any case it would be strong enough worded so that they get it (without sounding threatening)