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There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine..

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

mdpye 8y ago
That's the whole point of the survey, as I read it. You can't look at it and say it's fine, but they do. That is important to understand. As a counterpoint, the US polls the lowest concern in the world for poverty and inequality. Yet there's no way in my mind you can look at inequality in the states and say "yeah, that's fine", but over 4 in 5 Americans polled said exactly that.
- ciguy 8y ago
  Of course they say that it's fine. You would too if you could be punished by your government for saying otherwise.
  - yorwba 8y ago
    How would the US government punish someone who complains about poverty and inequality in the states?
    - ciguy 8y ago
      I'm not talking about the Americans, I'm talking about the Chinese saying things are going well, which is what the first part of the comment I'm replying to was referring to. Then they shoehorned Americans into the argument for some reason. I'm saying that I doubt this is just a matter of the Chinese being blind to the issues in China. It's a matter of them bring unwilling to risk speaking out.
- Tsubasachan 8y ago
  Here is an observation that I have made: its always the worst countries that are the most patriotic. Nobody pledges allegiance to the flag in the Netherlands or Norway.
tluyben2 8y ago
> There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say I am not saying that, people who are born and raised and live there say so (the small sample I speak to a lot). I find it hard to judge as an outsider although it definitely does not look ok.
yorwba 8y ago
> There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” Social credit is more than just a tool for oppression. (There's also more than one possible implementation currently in trial, but that applies to all of them.) Because the vast majority of Chinese citizens are not anti-government activists, any such survey will be dominated by those who can finally get a line of credit for their small business. Even a million Uyghurs in internment camps don't make a dent when you're just looking at average satisfaction.
- yostrovs 8y ago
  The Uyghurs in prison were not available to participate in study. Nor to comment.
  - Fricken 8y ago
    Even after factoring in the worst estimates of those detained in Uyghur reeducation camps, America's incarceration rates are still over 3x China's.
  - zachguo 8y ago
    Uyghur population is less than one percent of China's population. Results won't change even if they are able to participate.
ppod 8y ago
>People in cults also say they’re doing fine... Yep, and people in religions say they're doing fine. Some of them probably are doing fine. I admit that this survey could be biased because of people being afraid of their answers being monitored, and also that people in a country like China are probably somewhat brainwashed by the censorship in the media. But you have to keep your mind open to the possibility that a human might balance all things in mind and with a calm disinterested choice decide that it's worth giving up privacy and freedom for a more peaceful, orderly, and efficient society. I know those aren't the values of many Americans, but Americans sometimes seem strangely unable to imagine that any human being could possibly have different values to theirs.
- you_owe_me 8y ago
  I am sure if you ask any current or past tirant, all of them will tell you that they just want a "more peaceful, orderly, and efficient society". Hell, even Genghis Khan would say that

There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” People in cults also say they’re doing fine...

mdpye 8y ago

That's the whole point of the survey, as I read it. You can't look at it and say it's fine, but they do. That is important to understand. As a counterpoint, the US polls the lowest concern in the world for poverty and inequality. Yet there's no way in my mind you can look at inequality in the states and say "yeah, that's fine", but over 4 in 5 Americans polled said exactly that.

ciguy 8y ago
Of course they say that it's fine. You would too if you could be punished by your government for saying otherwise.
- yorwba 8y ago
  How would the US government punish someone who complains about poverty and inequality in the states?
  - ciguy 8y ago
    I'm not talking about the Americans, I'm talking about the Chinese saying things are going well, which is what the first part of the comment I'm replying to was referring to. Then they shoehorned Americans into the argument for some reason. I'm saying that I doubt this is just a matter of the Chinese being blind to the issues in China. It's a matter of them bring unwilling to risk speaking out.
Tsubasachan 8y ago
Here is an observation that I have made: its always the worst countries that are the most patriotic. Nobody pledges allegiance to the flag in the Netherlands or Norway.

tluyben2 8y ago

> There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say I am not saying that, people who are born and raised and live there say so (the small sample I speak to a lot). I find it hard to judge as an outsider although it definitely does not look ok.

yorwba 8y ago

> There’s no way you can look at the social credit shit they have going on and say “uh yeah everything looks fine!” Social credit is more than just a tool for oppression. (There's also more than one possible implementation currently in trial, but that applies to all of them.) Because the vast majority of Chinese citizens are not anti-government activists, any such survey will be dominated by those who can finally get a line of credit for their small business. Even a million Uyghurs in internment camps don't make a dent when you're just looking at average satisfaction.

yostrovs 8y ago
The Uyghurs in prison were not available to participate in study. Nor to comment.
- Fricken 8y ago
  Even after factoring in the worst estimates of those detained in Uyghur reeducation camps, America's incarceration rates are still over 3x China's.
- zachguo 8y ago
  Uyghur population is less than one percent of China's population. Results won't change even if they are able to participate.

ppod 8y ago

>People in cults also say they’re doing fine... Yep, and people in religions say they're doing fine. Some of them probably are doing fine. I admit that this survey could be biased because of people being afraid of their answers being monitored, and also that people in a country like China are probably somewhat brainwashed by the censorship in the media. But you have to keep your mind open to the possibility that a human might balance all things in mind and with a calm disinterested choice decide that it's worth giving up privacy and freedom for a more peaceful, orderly, and efficient society. I know those aren't the values of many Americans, but Americans sometimes seem strangely unable to imagine that any human being could possibly have different values to theirs.

you_owe_me 8y ago
I am sure if you ask any current or past tirant, all of them will tell you that they just want a "more peaceful, orderly, and efficient society". Hell, even Genghis Khan would say that