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> 19 states still allow schools to hit students As one living in a country that bans parents from hitting their own children, I find that number shocking. Do t

> 19 states still allow schools to hit students As one living in a country that bans parents from hitting their own children, I find that number shocking. Do they actually hit the kids in practice, or is this some left-over regulation from the past (like the French ban on women wearing trousers in Paris that got formally repelled a few years ago)?

trevyn 8y ago
You might be even more shocked if you leave first-world countries. Human brutality runs deep, and you can still find it displayed openly on the majority of Earth’s land mass.
- ddebernardy 8y ago
  A number of developing countries ban all forms of corporal punishments on children. Swaths of Latin America does so, as do a few African and Asian countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_corporal_punishment_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_corporal_punishment_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment
  - trevyn 8y ago
    All developing countries have ineffective enforcement of laws, as well — that’s one of the defining criteria.
    - moreira 8y ago
      I think there's a significant difference between the practice being banned but there being "ineffective enforcement of laws", and being somewhere where it's still allowed and seen as perfectly acceptable.
- jakobegger 8y ago
  The US is the only country that has not signed the UN convention on childrens rights. Even developing countries ban corporeal punishment. The US is the outlier.
  - ThrowawayR2 8y ago
    > The US is the only country that has not signed the UN convention on childrens rights. I looked it up on Wikipedia; seems like a lot of nations don't consider it to forbid child corporal punishment. ("The Committee's interpretation of this section to encompass a prohibition on corporal punishment has been rejected by several state parties to the Convention, including Australia,[14] Canada and the United Kingdom.") > Even developing countries ban corporeal punishment. Most countries seem to forbid corporal punishment in schools, with varying levels of enforcement, but many do not forbid parental corporal punishment; China is one example, http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1083321.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1083321.shtml.
ddingus 8y ago
As a kid, living in a time and State where that was permitted, I found the idea so basically wrong that I made it perfectly clear that day would be my last day if required, as in no holds barred, do what it takes. Looked that guy right in the eye, ready... told him it was not gonna happen. It didn't, and I was the only one that it did not happen to. Let's just say the events that followed after I made that statement were not pretty. But, I also must say I have not experienced that clarity and strength of resolve since. 7th grade. I was scared by it. What the whole scenario triggered. What I was capable of in that moment. That person transferred to another school system shortly after. We met again 20 some years later at a wedding reception. Of course we immediately got drinks and caught up. Both of us eager to revisit that time as different, and better people. I was that serious problem kid, he remarked at how ill equipped the staff were at that time. Was a real mess. Some laughs and a handshake later, both of us got some much needed closure. I think when it comes down to basic physical means we have failed as people. It can work. Does sometimes. But there are costs, scars. Not physical ones so much. But, when it does not work? I really do fear the state of mind I arrived at that day. Unnecessary too. What of others, their states of mind? What happens when they can't process it, or it builds up over repeated events? Our talk healed both our scars amazingly well. I consider both of us lucky in that respect. Edit: I had it super rough as a kid. Turned out fine after middle school though. Was a mess like I said. I did gain something high value. I can often reach troubled kids. I have been in very dark, scary places. And I, at times, had little to no meaningful help. It was another person reached me. That is what does the real work, and it does not require beatings to accomplish. It does require understanding. That is harder than a beating, but far more potent.
- kwhitefoot 8y ago
  This seems to me like a sincere and uplifting post; why was it downvoted?
  - DanBC 8y ago
    I didn't vote on that post, but it says that physical violence against a child can work. > I think when it comes down to basic physical means we have failed as people. It can work. Does sometimes. But there are costs, scars. Not physical ones so much.
c3534l 8y ago
Public schools sure don't hit kids. Private schools might. I know Catholic schools were infamous for smacking the crap out of kids, but I don't know how much they've mellowed on that since my Dad and uncles went through Catholic school in the 70s. I think parents would be pretty irate if a public school administrator hit their kids, even if they themselves hit their kids. Edit: I looked at a map and the states that don't forbid hitting kids in school are all the South: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/533438e769beddc92a184b21-480-273.jpg https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/533438e769beddc92a184... That's a pretty big cultural disparity, so while I can't imagine hitting kids to fly in a million years in any state that I've lived in, I suppose my account could be biased. There can be a pretty big divide between southern states and northern ones sometimes.
- techsupporter 8y ago
  > Public schools sure don't hit kids. They for darn sure do. On the ordered list of reasons why I yanked my kid out of the school he was in, number three (will shock you) is that one of his friends "received corporal punishment" (the polite euphemism for "was struck") and the school and school district had no mechanism for parents ordering the school to not do that to our children. > I looked at a map and the states that don't forbid hitting kids in school are all the South Yep. > There can be a pretty big divide between southern states and northern ones sometimes. You're not wrong. High up on the list of reasons why my immediate family does not now and never will again live in the state listed on the top of all of our birth certificates is cultural differences like this. My "home" state shows no real signs of changing this or many other of these things. I sincerely hope they do but me and mine will be witnessing it from afar, at least until my kid becomes an adult and chooses for himself where to live.
- mbrumlow 8y ago
  I went to a public school in the south and was hit as part of a punishment for something I was falsly accused of doing.
- flyingfences 8y ago
  I do think it's a bit misleading for you to say "all in the south" when that map stretches all the way to the Canadian border, but I digress... One anecdote, not that it paints much of a picture, is that I have a much younger cousin in Catholic school right now (in one of the states on that map) and, from what I hear, it sounds like corporal punishment is completely off the table.
MertsA 8y ago
My elementary school did have a process for corporal punishment. It was only done with the approval of the parents and in practice I can't imagine that there was more than a handful of parents that filled that form out. I know that in the administration office they had a couple of those forms printed out and I can't imagine that those would be printed and ready just sitting out if they hadn't ever filled any out in years though... This was in Florida around 2000.

trevyn 8y ago

You might be even more shocked if you leave first-world countries. Human brutality runs deep, and you can still find it displayed openly on the majority of Earth’s land mass.

ddebernardy 8y ago
A number of developing countries ban all forms of corporal punishments on children. Swaths of Latin America does so, as do a few African and Asian countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_corporal_punishment_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_corporal_punishment_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment
- trevyn 8y ago
  All developing countries have ineffective enforcement of laws, as well — that’s one of the defining criteria.
  - moreira 8y ago
    I think there's a significant difference between the practice being banned but there being "ineffective enforcement of laws", and being somewhere where it's still allowed and seen as perfectly acceptable.
jakobegger 8y ago
The US is the only country that has not signed the UN convention on childrens rights. Even developing countries ban corporeal punishment. The US is the outlier.
- ThrowawayR2 8y ago
  > The US is the only country that has not signed the UN convention on childrens rights. I looked it up on Wikipedia; seems like a lot of nations don't consider it to forbid child corporal punishment. ("The Committee's interpretation of this section to encompass a prohibition on corporal punishment has been rejected by several state parties to the Convention, including Australia,[14] Canada and the United Kingdom.") > Even developing countries ban corporeal punishment. Most countries seem to forbid corporal punishment in schools, with varying levels of enforcement, but many do not forbid parental corporal punishment; China is one example, http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1083321.shtml http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1083321.shtml.

ddingus 8y ago

As a kid, living in a time and State where that was permitted, I found the idea so basically wrong that I made it perfectly clear that day would be my last day if required, as in no holds barred, do what it takes. Looked that guy right in the eye, ready... told him it was not gonna happen. It didn't, and I was the only one that it did not happen to. Let's just say the events that followed after I made that statement were not pretty. But, I also must say I have not experienced that clarity and strength of resolve since. 7th grade. I was scared by it. What the whole scenario triggered. What I was capable of in that moment. That person transferred to another school system shortly after. We met again 20 some years later at a wedding reception. Of course we immediately got drinks and caught up. Both of us eager to revisit that time as different, and better people. I was that serious problem kid, he remarked at how ill equipped the staff were at that time. Was a real mess. Some laughs and a handshake later, both of us got some much needed closure. I think when it comes down to basic physical means we have failed as people. It can work. Does sometimes. But there are costs, scars. Not physical ones so much. But, when it does not work? I really do fear the state of mind I arrived at that day. Unnecessary too. What of others, their states of mind? What happens when they can't process it, or it builds up over repeated events? Our talk healed both our scars amazingly well. I consider both of us lucky in that respect. Edit: I had it super rough as a kid. Turned out fine after middle school though. Was a mess like I said. I did gain something high value. I can often reach troubled kids. I have been in very dark, scary places. And I, at times, had little to no meaningful help. It was another person reached me. That is what does the real work, and it does not require beatings to accomplish. It does require understanding. That is harder than a beating, but far more potent.

kwhitefoot 8y ago
This seems to me like a sincere and uplifting post; why was it downvoted?
- DanBC 8y ago
  I didn't vote on that post, but it says that physical violence against a child can work. > I think when it comes down to basic physical means we have failed as people. It can work. Does sometimes. But there are costs, scars. Not physical ones so much.

c3534l 8y ago

Public schools sure don't hit kids. Private schools might. I know Catholic schools were infamous for smacking the crap out of kids, but I don't know how much they've mellowed on that since my Dad and uncles went through Catholic school in the 70s. I think parents would be pretty irate if a public school administrator hit their kids, even if they themselves hit their kids. Edit: I looked at a map and the states that don't forbid hitting kids in school are all the South: https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/533438e769beddc92a184b21-480-273.jpg https://amp.businessinsider.com/images/533438e769beddc92a184... That's a pretty big cultural disparity, so while I can't imagine hitting kids to fly in a million years in any state that I've lived in, I suppose my account could be biased. There can be a pretty big divide between southern states and northern ones sometimes.

techsupporter 8y ago
> Public schools sure don't hit kids. They for darn sure do. On the ordered list of reasons why I yanked my kid out of the school he was in, number three (will shock you) is that one of his friends "received corporal punishment" (the polite euphemism for "was struck") and the school and school district had no mechanism for parents ordering the school to not do that to our children. > I looked at a map and the states that don't forbid hitting kids in school are all the South Yep. > There can be a pretty big divide between southern states and northern ones sometimes. You're not wrong. High up on the list of reasons why my immediate family does not now and never will again live in the state listed on the top of all of our birth certificates is cultural differences like this. My "home" state shows no real signs of changing this or many other of these things. I sincerely hope they do but me and mine will be witnessing it from afar, at least until my kid becomes an adult and chooses for himself where to live.
mbrumlow 8y ago
I went to a public school in the south and was hit as part of a punishment for something I was falsly accused of doing.
flyingfences 8y ago
I do think it's a bit misleading for you to say "all in the south" when that map stretches all the way to the Canadian border, but I digress... One anecdote, not that it paints much of a picture, is that I have a much younger cousin in Catholic school right now (in one of the states on that map) and, from what I hear, it sounds like corporal punishment is completely off the table.

MertsA 8y ago

My elementary school did have a process for corporal punishment. It was only done with the approval of the parents and in practice I can't imagine that there was more than a handful of parents that filled that form out. I know that in the administration office they had a couple of those forms printed out and I can't imagine that those would be printed and ready just sitting out if they hadn't ever filled any out in years though... This was in Florida around 2000.