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What is absolutely insane? The existence of "corporal punishment" or "physical abuse"? According to the quoted sentence ("prevent corporal punishment that cros

What is absolutely insane? The existence of "corporal punishment" or "physical abuse"? According to the quoted sentence ("prevent corporal punishment that crosses the line into abuse"), corporal punishment is not the same as abuse. The article also says: "Corporal punishment may include pain but is not supposed to result in injury; corporal punishment resulting in injury is physical abuse." So the line is whether the punishment resulting in injury. But it is not clear what is counted as "injury".

nkozyra 8y ago
> What is absolutely insane? The existence of "corporal punishment" or "physical abuse"? Corporal punishment as administered by schools.
- educationdata 8y ago
  It is just not illegal, it does not mean the schools or teachers are actually doing it.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    Schools and teachers are actually doing it.
cortesoft 8y ago
Corporal punishment is insane.
mirimir 8y ago
Yeah. What about punishment resulting in emotional injury? All that corporal punishment teaches is that it's OK for the powerful to punish the weak.
- nearbuy 8y ago
  All punishment results in emotional injury. That's what punishment means...
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Of course. And punishment tends to produce damaged people, who hate themselves because they're bad. Because, you know, they must be bad, because they've been punished. And because they're bad, and hate themselves, they take it out on others, whenever they can get away with it. So it's a recursive cycle of punishment.
    - kabouseng 8y ago
      Citation needed for that statement. Corporal punishment has been a part of human societies for thousands of years, so you need stronger evidence for such a statement.
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Crime and war have also "been a part of human societies for thousands of years". > deMause, L. (2002). The emotional life of nations. London, England: Karnac Books. > Abstract > Describes a psychogenic theory of history, arguing that childrearing and the interpersonal expression of love impact upon the national and international arenas with greater force than any bomb. The author discusses the role of mothers in political progress, our psychological dependency on our enemies, and the concept of the "social alter"--that part of the mind that infinitely restages social trauma. Furthermore, he delineates the ways in which inadequate parenting and overabundant technology interact to produce the crises of our age. Part I of this book describes how shared early personal experiences determine political behavior. The three chapters describe historically recent political events to demonstrate how shared emotions can cause political violence. Part II details a psychohistorical theory of history, first as it applies to politics and second as it explains the causes of war. Part III is a history of how child rearing has evolved and how more loving, trustful parenting has produced new kinds of human psyches, which in turn have resulted in new social and political institutions. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved) http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2002-17655-000 http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2002-17655-000 Also: https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=2015&q=psychohistory+punishment&btnG= https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=...
- geomark 8y ago
  There is actually another more important lesson, which is that there is always someone bigger and more powerful than you.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Well, yes. And so you need better weapons than they have. Funny story. So I'm a little wiry guy. And back in the day, I used to carry a buck knife in my back pocket. As Logen says, you can never have enough knives ;) But anyway, a bunch of us were sitting around a fire, BSing, and I start cleaning my fingernails with the knife. And this big jolly dude says "It's always you little guys who pull a knife, when we're just having a friendly brawl!" Funny, no? Edit: But global nuclear war? Not so funny :(
- hopler 8y ago
  The weak clearly can't punish the powerful. If the powerful can't punish the weak, there is no check against criminal activity.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Criminal activity by the powerful is a far greater problem than criminal activity by the weak.

nkozyra 8y ago

> What is absolutely insane? The existence of "corporal punishment" or "physical abuse"? Corporal punishment as administered by schools.

educationdata 8y ago
It is just not illegal, it does not mean the schools or teachers are actually doing it.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Schools and teachers are actually doing it.

cortesoft 8y ago

Corporal punishment is insane.

mirimir 8y ago

Yeah. What about punishment resulting in emotional injury? All that corporal punishment teaches is that it's OK for the powerful to punish the weak.

nearbuy 8y ago
All punishment results in emotional injury. That's what punishment means...
- mirimir 8y ago
  Of course. And punishment tends to produce damaged people, who hate themselves because they're bad. Because, you know, they must be bad, because they've been punished. And because they're bad, and hate themselves, they take it out on others, whenever they can get away with it. So it's a recursive cycle of punishment.
  - kabouseng 8y ago
    Citation needed for that statement. Corporal punishment has been a part of human societies for thousands of years, so you need stronger evidence for such a statement.
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Crime and war have also "been a part of human societies for thousands of years". > deMause, L. (2002). The emotional life of nations. London, England: Karnac Books. > Abstract > Describes a psychogenic theory of history, arguing that childrearing and the interpersonal expression of love impact upon the national and international arenas with greater force than any bomb. The author discusses the role of mothers in political progress, our psychological dependency on our enemies, and the concept of the "social alter"--that part of the mind that infinitely restages social trauma. Furthermore, he delineates the ways in which inadequate parenting and overabundant technology interact to produce the crises of our age. Part I of this book describes how shared early personal experiences determine political behavior. The three chapters describe historically recent political events to demonstrate how shared emotions can cause political violence. Part II details a psychohistorical theory of history, first as it applies to politics and second as it explains the causes of war. Part III is a history of how child rearing has evolved and how more loving, trustful parenting has produced new kinds of human psyches, which in turn have resulted in new social and political institutions. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2016 APA, all rights reserved) http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2002-17655-000 http://psycnet.apa.org/record/2002-17655-000 Also: https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=2015&q=psychohistory+punishment&btnG= https://scholar.google.de/scholar?hl=de&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=...
geomark 8y ago
There is actually another more important lesson, which is that there is always someone bigger and more powerful than you.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Well, yes. And so you need better weapons than they have. Funny story. So I'm a little wiry guy. And back in the day, I used to carry a buck knife in my back pocket. As Logen says, you can never have enough knives ;) But anyway, a bunch of us were sitting around a fire, BSing, and I start cleaning my fingernails with the knife. And this big jolly dude says "It's always you little guys who pull a knife, when we're just having a friendly brawl!" Funny, no? Edit: But global nuclear war? Not so funny :(
hopler 8y ago
The weak clearly can't punish the powerful. If the powerful can't punish the weak, there is no check against criminal activity.
- mirimir 8y ago
  Criminal activity by the powerful is a far greater problem than criminal activity by the weak.