4 ms·

> I'm glad I've wasted their time That's an odd attitude. You've also wasted your own time, yes? I can see how it's problematic to bring it up ahead of time.

> I'm glad I've wasted their time That's an odd attitude. You've also wasted your own time, yes? I can see how it's problematic to bring it up ahead of time. "By the way, I won't sign a non-compete." Immediately the company is on alert: you plan to quit after learning their secrets and go to a competitor? It's like drug testing: obviously a violation of your rights, but why would I hire this one guy who refuses to take it? The only real solution is legislative. For you to die on that hill repeatedly means the companies are still just as profitable, and you're unemployed.

cortesoft 8y ago
Very odd.. an individual’s time is way more valuable than a company’s time... companies waste time like it grows on trees.
kensai 8y ago
I disagree. If he has said this in the beginning it would have probably been the end of the process immediately. Yes, he wasted his own time, but also got XP out of it. And now the company invested already resources on him and may probably think it’s the worth the risk.
geezerjay 8y ago
> That's an odd attitude. You've also wasted your own time, yes? Dodging a bullet is not wasting time. In fact, not signing a noncompete implies that the employee will not be forced to wait out an unspecified period before he is authorized to accept a job offer. Thus, refusing to sign a noncompete not only saves time but also improves their chances to have access to better job opportunities.
- Gibbon1 8y ago
  Was going to say the time wasted interviewing pales in comparison to the time wasted if the non-compete becomes an issue legally.
perfunctory 8y ago
> but why would I hire this one guy who refuses to take it? Am I the only one who finds this asymmetry bizarre? Shell I ask the hiring manger to take a drug test? And why would I work for him if he refuses?
- mdpopescu 8y ago
  This is actually a great idea. I've never had to take a drug test but I'll remember to mention it if it ever pops up.
- coupdejarnac 8y ago
  I did something similar in an interview because things had already gone south. I asked to see code from the hiring company, because I didn't want to work on a poor codebase. It didn't go over well, lol.
mancerayder 8y ago
> I'm glad I've wasted their time That's an odd attitude. You've also wasted your own time, yes? Wait, there's another approach. Sign the non-compete, and let them sue you, if they even notice that is, after you're in the new place. I had a boss that did this (which I saw happen live) nonchalantly. And managers are worth going after more than individual contributors in many cases. In the most recent case they went after him and New Company's lawyers came to the rescue. For those readers not in the US, those of us commenting from within the US have different laws in different states. In New York State, the judges typically respect non-competes for one year (even if it says 1000 years in the contract). One employer of mine tied stock options to the non-compete, in a totally separate document from the offer letter. There has to be something material, otherwise, what are they going to do, beat you up? A restraining order so you can't go to New Company?
- ChrisLomont 8y ago
  This is terrible advice. Signing a contract you then willfully violate may cost you significant time and money, and if I found out this is how you operate, I’d never hire you. I suspect many other employers wouldn’t either. Simply don’t sign such a contract.
  - mancerayder 8y ago
    found out this is how you operate, I’d never hire you. You wouldn't find out until I found a new job someplace else, right? And at that point, why would I lose sleep over how incensed you supposedly would be, here, hypothetically? Worked great for my ex boss. What do you recommend, a person stays unemployed forever because they refuse to sign these unprincipled agreements? Did you read the Bloomberg article? We're not all Richard Stallman. Some of us have mortgages and obligations. Let's hope more states follow California.
    - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
      >What do you recommend, a person stays unemployed forever because they refuse to sign these unprincipled agreements? You don't need to be that dramatic about the non-compete. What you do is you ask HR via e-mail whether the non-compete is negotiable or a mandatory requirement for employment. If it is mandatory, then you have written proof that the non-compete is a contract of adhesion, so you simply need to budget for a lawyer to sue to nullify it on termination. If it is negotiable, then you don't sign the non-compete, or sign a non-compete clause that actually compensates you at full or partial salary for the time spent not competing.

cortesoft 8y ago

Very odd.. an individual’s time is way more valuable than a company’s time... companies waste time like it grows on trees.

kensai 8y ago

I disagree. If he has said this in the beginning it would have probably been the end of the process immediately. Yes, he wasted his own time, but also got XP out of it. And now the company invested already resources on him and may probably think it’s the worth the risk.

geezerjay 8y ago

> That's an odd attitude. You've also wasted your own time, yes? Dodging a bullet is not wasting time. In fact, not signing a noncompete implies that the employee will not be forced to wait out an unspecified period before he is authorized to accept a job offer. Thus, refusing to sign a noncompete not only saves time but also improves their chances to have access to better job opportunities.

Gibbon1 8y ago
Was going to say the time wasted interviewing pales in comparison to the time wasted if the non-compete becomes an issue legally.

perfunctory 8y ago

> but why would I hire this one guy who refuses to take it? Am I the only one who finds this asymmetry bizarre? Shell I ask the hiring manger to take a drug test? And why would I work for him if he refuses?

mdpopescu 8y ago
This is actually a great idea. I've never had to take a drug test but I'll remember to mention it if it ever pops up.
coupdejarnac 8y ago
I did something similar in an interview because things had already gone south. I asked to see code from the hiring company, because I didn't want to work on a poor codebase. It didn't go over well, lol.

mancerayder 8y ago

> I'm glad I've wasted their time That's an odd attitude. You've also wasted your own time, yes? Wait, there's another approach. Sign the non-compete, and let them sue you, if they even notice that is, after you're in the new place. I had a boss that did this (which I saw happen live) nonchalantly. And managers are worth going after more than individual contributors in many cases. In the most recent case they went after him and New Company's lawyers came to the rescue. For those readers not in the US, those of us commenting from within the US have different laws in different states. In New York State, the judges typically respect non-competes for one year (even if it says 1000 years in the contract). One employer of mine tied stock options to the non-compete, in a totally separate document from the offer letter. There has to be something material, otherwise, what are they going to do, beat you up? A restraining order so you can't go to New Company?

ChrisLomont 8y ago
This is terrible advice. Signing a contract you then willfully violate may cost you significant time and money, and if I found out this is how you operate, I’d never hire you. I suspect many other employers wouldn’t either. Simply don’t sign such a contract.
- mancerayder 8y ago
  found out this is how you operate, I’d never hire you. You wouldn't find out until I found a new job someplace else, right? And at that point, why would I lose sleep over how incensed you supposedly would be, here, hypothetically? Worked great for my ex boss. What do you recommend, a person stays unemployed forever because they refuse to sign these unprincipled agreements? Did you read the Bloomberg article? We're not all Richard Stallman. Some of us have mortgages and obligations. Let's hope more states follow California.
  - ThrustVectoring 8y ago
    >What do you recommend, a person stays unemployed forever because they refuse to sign these unprincipled agreements? You don't need to be that dramatic about the non-compete. What you do is you ask HR via e-mail whether the non-compete is negotiable or a mandatory requirement for employment. If it is mandatory, then you have written proof that the non-compete is a contract of adhesion, so you simply need to budget for a lawyer to sue to nullify it on termination. If it is negotiable, then you don't sign the non-compete, or sign a non-compete clause that actually compensates you at full or partial salary for the time spent not competing.