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> if someone doesn't know what a cartesian product is (high school level math), perhaps they shouldn't be allowed near a database Knowing what is meant when a

> if someone doesn't know what a cartesian product is (high school level math), perhaps they shouldn't be allowed near a database Knowing what is meant when a term or symbol is used is not math, it's language. You can know the meanings of all kinds of terms and symbols, and you will still not know anything about math, you'll only know something about mathematicians and how they like to communicate. Conversely, someone may understand the math perfectly well but not know the correct terms or symbols (perhaps they learned under a different system, in a different country, etc.)

coldtea 8y ago
>Knowing what is meant when a term or symbol is used is not math, it's language. When the symbol is a mathematical symbol, and describes a mathematical operation, then "knowing what is meant" by it means you know a piece of math. Besides I wasn't describing what you "know" if you know what a Cartesian Product is. I was stating (as a fact) where you learn it (at high school math classes).
- torstenvl 8y ago
  A person can know the integral sign and know vaguely that it means "the area under a curve" without actually knowing calculus. Understanding the semantics of a term or symbol and being familiar with its referent are very different things. This is universally accepted and not controversial at all. If you'd like to continue arguing your point, I'd ask you to provide even a modicum of evidence. In terms of what you're "stating (as a fact)," I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're wrong. Many high schools do not teach set theory and, among those that do, many - mine included - don't refer to this operation as the Cartesian product. It is simply "the product of A x B."
- andybak 8y ago
  > I was stating (as a fact) where you learn it (at high school math classes). Interestingly your "fact" is false - from my experience. You'd need to specific country where this high school is located, the year of the syllabus and possibly a region within a country. When I went to "high school" (we don't call it that) the syllabus differed by region. And we never studied cartesian products.

coldtea 8y ago

>Knowing what is meant when a term or symbol is used is not math, it's language. When the symbol is a mathematical symbol, and describes a mathematical operation, then "knowing what is meant" by it means you know a piece of math. Besides I wasn't describing what you "know" if you know what a Cartesian Product is. I was stating (as a fact) where you learn it (at high school math classes).

torstenvl 8y ago
A person can know the integral sign and know vaguely that it means "the area under a curve" without actually knowing calculus. Understanding the semantics of a term or symbol and being familiar with its referent are very different things. This is universally accepted and not controversial at all. If you'd like to continue arguing your point, I'd ask you to provide even a modicum of evidence. In terms of what you're "stating (as a fact)," I can tell you with absolute certainty that you're wrong. Many high schools do not teach set theory and, among those that do, many - mine included - don't refer to this operation as the Cartesian product. It is simply "the product of A x B."
andybak 8y ago
> I was stating (as a fact) where you learn it (at high school math classes). Interestingly your "fact" is false - from my experience. You'd need to specific country where this high school is located, the year of the syllabus and possibly a region within a country. When I went to "high school" (we don't call it that) the syllabus differed by region. And we never studied cartesian products.