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8 weeks of pay as severance is insultingly horrible, even for very junior employees. If a company hopes to grow and be taken seriously as a professional workpla

by mlthoughts2018 8y ago

8 weeks of pay as severance is insultingly horrible, even for very junior employees. If a company hopes to grow and be taken seriously as a professional workplace, you have to do much, much better than 8 weeks pay & benefits for severance. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Always negotiate severance up front as part of any job offer, and consider 4-6 months as an absolute minimum for junior or mid-level employees, and at least 12 months of pay for senior employees. Simply turn down job offers when a company won’t offer this and take a longer time to find an offer at one of the (many) companies that will. Most companies will negotiate severance with you but you have to ask and make it clear that in-writing severance details to serve as protection against unexpected unemployment from layoffs is a dealbreaker for you. Most candidates won’t negotiate this, which is why most companies don’t have to offer it except to the few special case people that require it. If we all, as candidates, unilaterally make it impossible to hire us without adequate severance, we’ll all be better off.. instead of just the minority of candidates who put forward the effort to negotiate it and aren’t afraid to turn down offers that don’t include defined severance agreements.

chucksmash 8y ago
> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Always negotiate severance up front as part of any job offer, and consider 4-6 months as an absolute minimum for junior or mid-level employees, and at least 12 months of pay for senior employees. Simply turn down job offers when a company won’t offer this and take a longer time to find an offer at one of the (many) companies that will. Have you put this into practice? It'd be a nice contingency to have in place but seems like it'd put a damper on the tone of the negotiations ("I'm already thinking about being let go and want to make it really expensive for you to do so").
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  Yes, I have absolutely put this into practice. I have encountered companies that have blanket policies about either low or no severance, and I simply reject any offer or request to continue negotiations without severance. This has certainly made job searches take longer and certainly left me feeling frustrated after investing time in take-home tests, on-site interviews and negotiations, only to learn that severance agreements weren’t possible in some cases. But I gained a lot of experience regarding how to negotiate it and talk about it, and ultimately found that most companies are perfectly happy to negotiate it as part of the job offer.
whamlastxmas 8y ago
I think most every job I've had as a developer would think it ridiculous for me to ask for severance. Severance is meant for high end positions where there's a large cost to the employee to switch jobs because of how illiquid management and executive roles can be. Developer jobs are extremely easy to switch between.
- mlthoughts2018 8y ago
  It’s wrong thinking like this that allows companies to continue omitting severance from many basic developer job offers. Meanwhile, if you don’t assume “it’s ridiculous” and actually ask for it, you find many companies are perfectly willing to negotiate it, even for junior level software engineering positions.

chucksmash 8y ago

> I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Always negotiate severance up front as part of any job offer, and consider 4-6 months as an absolute minimum for junior or mid-level employees, and at least 12 months of pay for senior employees. Simply turn down job offers when a company won’t offer this and take a longer time to find an offer at one of the (many) companies that will. Have you put this into practice? It'd be a nice contingency to have in place but seems like it'd put a damper on the tone of the negotiations ("I'm already thinking about being let go and want to make it really expensive for you to do so").

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
Yes, I have absolutely put this into practice. I have encountered companies that have blanket policies about either low or no severance, and I simply reject any offer or request to continue negotiations without severance. This has certainly made job searches take longer and certainly left me feeling frustrated after investing time in take-home tests, on-site interviews and negotiations, only to learn that severance agreements weren’t possible in some cases. But I gained a lot of experience regarding how to negotiate it and talk about it, and ultimately found that most companies are perfectly happy to negotiate it as part of the job offer.

whamlastxmas 8y ago

I think most every job I've had as a developer would think it ridiculous for me to ask for severance. Severance is meant for high end positions where there's a large cost to the employee to switch jobs because of how illiquid management and executive roles can be. Developer jobs are extremely easy to switch between.

mlthoughts2018 8y ago
It’s wrong thinking like this that allows companies to continue omitting severance from many basic developer job offers. Meanwhile, if you don’t assume “it’s ridiculous” and actually ask for it, you find many companies are perfectly willing to negotiate it, even for junior level software engineering positions.