4 ms·

If those employees go to China with trade secrets, they might be violating ITAR. ITAR is enforced with big fines and prison time.

nickthemagicman 8y ago
Not easy to catch though.
- gruez 8y ago
  so is espionage and treason
- dogma1138 8y ago
  Define easy anyone who works on such technologies is on some FBI database somewhere and likely more than just one. SpaceX doesn’t hire non-US citizens due to how hard it is to get the security clearance needed for them if they try to go to China they will likely get caught maybe not everyone, but enough to prevent any real knowledge transfer and more importantly the first one that will get caught is going to be made an example for the rest.
  - jamiek88 8y ago
    They can and do hire approved permanent residents too. It’s harder but they can work on ITAR information too. However the point stands that those people are vetted and tracked. How effective that is once they are in China or Russia etc I don’t know.
    - dogma1138 8y ago
      They can but I don’t think they do that Elon was asked several why don’t they hire non citizens. I’m sure some special cases do happen but the bulk of their workforce is US citizens. And again you assume that they won’t get caught going to Russia or China to begin with or that they won’t be tasked with assets in country once they arrive. We’re talking about 500-600 people here out of them it’s not clear how many would be really critical for technology transfer prevention but say it’s 25% so what we have is about 150 people or so that need to be tracked say 10% out of those will be contacted by a foreign entity that’s what 15 people? It’s really not hard to track them at that point. In fact I would guarantee you that this likely will be covered by their exit interview, they might even get a “scary” federal agent explaining them the do’s and don’ts and likely many of them already know them. And again this isn’t a new thing, NASA and the defense industry have fired people before it’s jot like it’s the first time that 500 people with security clearances lose jobs.
      - saberience 8y ago
        They do definitely hire many green card holders, I know because I was going to be one if their offer had been better.
      - lutorm 8y ago
        They don't care if you're a citizen or not, they care about whether you're legally allowed to work on rockets. From an ITAR perspective, a green card holder is the same as a US citizen, and from a recruiting perspective there is no difference.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  zaktly, and one is enough. No doubt in my mind that China has at least a few spies in all major US companies. It's hard to catch, especially if you have a nation state teaching you how to. But then a job is nothing compared to what China can pay them for a thumb-drive full of Tesla's secrets so even highly paid employees might do it for money. (Tesla is opening a factory in China though...so they might be ready to have some secrets stolen /priced in)

nickthemagicman 8y ago

Not easy to catch though.

gruez 8y ago
so is espionage and treason
dogma1138 8y ago
Define easy anyone who works on such technologies is on some FBI database somewhere and likely more than just one. SpaceX doesn’t hire non-US citizens due to how hard it is to get the security clearance needed for them if they try to go to China they will likely get caught maybe not everyone, but enough to prevent any real knowledge transfer and more importantly the first one that will get caught is going to be made an example for the rest.
- jamiek88 8y ago
  They can and do hire approved permanent residents too. It’s harder but they can work on ITAR information too. However the point stands that those people are vetted and tracked. How effective that is once they are in China or Russia etc I don’t know.
  - dogma1138 8y ago
    They can but I don’t think they do that Elon was asked several why don’t they hire non citizens. I’m sure some special cases do happen but the bulk of their workforce is US citizens. And again you assume that they won’t get caught going to Russia or China to begin with or that they won’t be tasked with assets in country once they arrive. We’re talking about 500-600 people here out of them it’s not clear how many would be really critical for technology transfer prevention but say it’s 25% so what we have is about 150 people or so that need to be tracked say 10% out of those will be contacted by a foreign entity that’s what 15 people? It’s really not hard to track them at that point. In fact I would guarantee you that this likely will be covered by their exit interview, they might even get a “scary” federal agent explaining them the do’s and don’ts and likely many of them already know them. And again this isn’t a new thing, NASA and the defense industry have fired people before it’s jot like it’s the first time that 500 people with security clearances lose jobs.
    - saberience 8y ago
      They do definitely hire many green card holders, I know because I was going to be one if their offer had been better.
    - lutorm 8y ago
      They don't care if you're a citizen or not, they care about whether you're legally allowed to work on rockets. From an ITAR perspective, a green card holder is the same as a US citizen, and from a recruiting perspective there is no difference.
onetimemanytime 8y ago
zaktly, and one is enough. No doubt in my mind that China has at least a few spies in all major US companies. It's hard to catch, especially if you have a nation state teaching you how to. But then a job is nothing compared to what China can pay them for a thumb-drive full of Tesla's secrets so even highly paid employees might do it for money. (Tesla is opening a factory in China though...so they might be ready to have some secrets stolen /priced in)