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So does that mean that these are also propaganda? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/First_man_on_the_moon.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wi

So does that mean that these are also propaganda? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/First_man_on_the_moon.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/First_ma... http://cconnect.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/2011-Topps-American-Pie-Base-Card-First-American-in-Space.jpg http://cconnect.s3.amazonaws.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/... https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/RV-AD398_VISUAL_G_20110701032530.jpg https://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/RV-AD398_VISUAL_G... Is celebrating your achievements propaganda?

myth_drannon 8y ago
Any art form that was created by the Soviet artists will be considered propaganda since it was state sanctioned. And they were pretty vocal and straightforward about that, art was to educate the people. In US, art many times is just away to make money. But I actually prefer the propaganda art. My favorite propaganda movies are by Tarkovsky - Mirror and Stalker....
- kstenerud 8y ago
  Everything done by the Soviets was state sanctioned. Making toothbrushes was state sanctioned (and centrally controlled, poorly). So if a cultural piece is produced by, under the direction of, or with the sanction of a government entity, does that make it propaganda? If so, this would make it impossible for any centrally controlled populace to create anything not propaganda.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    And impossible for private actors to create anything propaganda.
    - varjag 8y ago
      Artists were in fact routinely punished for creating art not serving propagandist effect.
      - StavrosK 8y ago
        I feel like this thread confuses the meaning of the word "propaganda". Artists were punished for creating art not in line with the government's ideals, not because they made art that wasn't propaganda.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  > Any art form that was created by the Soviet artists will be considered propaganda since it was state sanctioned How does this follow? Are US Army ads propaganda? How about NASA posters? Agricultural statistics leaflets? What do you call media that uses manipulative language to stir popular feeling through appeals to emotion that was privately funded? Nowhere in the dictionary does it say it's propaganda iff it's state-sanctioned: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda
  - Shivetya 8y ago
    Well there was America's Army[1], a video developed for the US Army. There are a whole series of these games and if they are not propaganda I don't know what is. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      I'm not asking if the US army has ever produced propaganda. I'm asking if everything it produces is propaganda.
  - projektfu 8y ago
    Propaganda can have a rather neutral definition. US Army ads are definitely propaganda. NASA posters are more of a form of marketing and self promotion. I don't think I've ever seen an agricultural statistics leaflet. But if you go to a public health clinic, you will see lots of propaganda about smoking, well care visits for infants, vaccines, STDs, etc. There is tons of propaganda in the US, much of it put out by 3rd parties, for example anything to promote "awareness" of some cause or issue. Also, any issue-oriented documentary is probably propaganda.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      Is it propaganda because of who pays for it? If I had paid to produce and distribute the leaflet that public health clinics do, would that be not-propaganda just because it's not state-produced?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- c-smile 8y ago
  USSR was a state-wide-corporation, and society model was state capitalism. Just one big corporation where government is just a board of directors really. Same is China now. In fact as larger US company as more of those stuff from USSR in it. That was my biggest surprise when I moved to North America from USSR in 1999. Imagine establishment of one big "USA, Inc" and you will get an idea how it could work. You will get planned economy on its next day, exactly what any corporation do these days - planning to minimize operational expenses.
chapium 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
- cat199 8y ago
  ooh lets post one liner wikipedia links and feel smug! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic
  - chapium 8y ago
    Thats not at all what i was aiming for, however enjoy feeling like you got me
- kstenerud 8y ago
  This isn't about whataboutism. I'm not referring to any hypocrisy here. The problem is with the criteria being used to define "propaganda". In this case I argue that, when the same standards are applied to Western media of this type, the same (invalid) conclusion must be reached. Therefore, the evidence presented is insufficient for the charge of propaganda.

myth_drannon 8y ago

Any art form that was created by the Soviet artists will be considered propaganda since it was state sanctioned. And they were pretty vocal and straightforward about that, art was to educate the people. In US, art many times is just away to make money. But I actually prefer the propaganda art. My favorite propaganda movies are by Tarkovsky - Mirror and Stalker....

kstenerud 8y ago
Everything done by the Soviets was state sanctioned. Making toothbrushes was state sanctioned (and centrally controlled, poorly). So if a cultural piece is produced by, under the direction of, or with the sanction of a government entity, does that make it propaganda? If so, this would make it impossible for any centrally controlled populace to create anything not propaganda.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  And impossible for private actors to create anything propaganda.
  - varjag 8y ago
    Artists were in fact routinely punished for creating art not serving propagandist effect.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      I feel like this thread confuses the meaning of the word "propaganda". Artists were punished for creating art not in line with the government's ideals, not because they made art that wasn't propaganda.
StavrosK 8y ago
> Any art form that was created by the Soviet artists will be considered propaganda since it was state sanctioned How does this follow? Are US Army ads propaganda? How about NASA posters? Agricultural statistics leaflets? What do you call media that uses manipulative language to stir popular feeling through appeals to emotion that was privately funded? Nowhere in the dictionary does it say it's propaganda iff it's state-sanctioned: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/propaganda
- Shivetya 8y ago
  Well there was America's Army[1], a video developed for the US Army. There are a whole series of these games and if they are not propaganda I don't know what is. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Army
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    I'm not asking if the US army has ever produced propaganda. I'm asking if everything it produces is propaganda.
- projektfu 8y ago
  Propaganda can have a rather neutral definition. US Army ads are definitely propaganda. NASA posters are more of a form of marketing and self promotion. I don't think I've ever seen an agricultural statistics leaflet. But if you go to a public health clinic, you will see lots of propaganda about smoking, well care visits for infants, vaccines, STDs, etc. There is tons of propaganda in the US, much of it put out by 3rd parties, for example anything to promote "awareness" of some cause or issue. Also, any issue-oriented documentary is probably propaganda.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    Is it propaganda because of who pays for it? If I had paid to produce and distribute the leaflet that public health clinics do, would that be not-propaganda just because it's not state-produced?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
c-smile 8y ago
USSR was a state-wide-corporation, and society model was state capitalism. Just one big corporation where government is just a board of directors really. Same is China now. In fact as larger US company as more of those stuff from USSR in it. That was my biggest surprise when I moved to North America from USSR in 1999. Imagine establishment of one big "USA, Inc" and you will get an idea how it could work. You will get planned economy on its next day, exactly what any corporation do these days - planning to minimize operational expenses.

chapium 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

cat199 8y ago
ooh lets post one liner wikipedia links and feel smug! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic
- chapium 8y ago
  Thats not at all what i was aiming for, however enjoy feeling like you got me
kstenerud 8y ago
This isn't about whataboutism. I'm not referring to any hypocrisy here. The problem is with the criteria being used to define "propaganda". In this case I argue that, when the same standards are applied to Western media of this type, the same (invalid) conclusion must be reached. Therefore, the evidence presented is insufficient for the charge of propaganda.