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It is not Santa Claus. It is "Ded Moroz"[1]. An old bloke from the times before christianity came to Russia. Orthodox priests always (for a ~1k years) opposed s

by ordu 8y ago

It is not Santa Claus. It is "Ded Moroz"[1]. An old bloke from the times before christianity came to Russia. Orthodox priests always (for a ~1k years) opposed such characters, trying to extinguish any lore except christianity, but never fully succeeded. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz

acqq 8y ago
Thanks. Wikipedia has the drawing from 1885, i.e. more than two decades before the Soviets existed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B7.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%D0%9C... Anybody knows even older?
aasasd 8y ago
It's curious how Russian (or Slavic?) people never abandoned remnants of pagan traditions despite calling themselves Christians. Fairy tales and merchandise galore, dozens if not hundreds of superstitions. Plenty of older people still believe in folk magic practiced by ‘gifted’ individuals (pretty much witches), though apparently with God's blessing. The same happened with religion and socialism: bolsheviks didn't hold back on killing priests, but the religion went strong (though it's said that the opposition to religion was abandoned in the light of unifying rhetoric of '41–45). Basically, people don't seem to care about ideological purity as long as the rhetoric is attractive.
- gbear605 8y ago
  What do you think Santa Claus is? He’s certainly not in the bible.
  - aasasd 8y ago
    I'm pretty sure saints aren't from paganism.
    - hobgoblin1234 8y ago
      ... syncretism. Heroes with a thousand faces
    - sorokod 8y ago
      The Christian religion with its three gods (https://catholicbible101.com/theholytrinity.htm https://catholicbible101.com/theholytrinity.htm),the cult of virgin mary and multitude of saints - in what significant ways does it differ from paganism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism) ?
    - scottlocklin 8y ago
      You should look a bit harder; some of them seem to be. At least elements of them. Dog faced St. Christopher. St. Brigid. Eostre taking place when it does. Heck, read 'the Heliand.' Early Church fathers were pretty explicit in their reasons for doing this.
- pndy 8y ago
  There are still people who are worshiping old "forgotten" faith; in some cases they're being used by political entities who are incorporating Slavic faith under Pan-Slavism ideology (the further on East in Europe, the more often that happens). In most of the cases the blending between Slavic and Christianity occurred and you can see that Dziady were evolved into All Souls' Day, or Noc Kupały - Kupala Night (Midsummer) turned into St. John's Day and so on. But this is not exclusive to Slavic faith - absorption of cults happened in the history many times when those on a stronger position were conquering those who were weaker. Slavs had to abandon their faith in the face of growing Christianity and baptize, turn themselves into Christians in order to avoid being raided by neighbors and treated as infidels.
- ordu 8y ago
  My guess that it is due to authoritarian nature of any ideology in Russia. Vladimir the Great[1] made some research into modern (to him) religions, selected christianity, and ordered his people to believe into Christ (not Islam because "Drinking is the joy of all Rus'. We cannot exist without that pleasure"). It was all about politics and business, and christianity from the very start in Russia was a tool in a hand of a ruler. Bolsheviks killed priests and then ressurected religion: they were unable to trust to Ortodox Church, so they destroyed it, and then built new trusted Ortodox Church. Top-down approach, you cannot be fully serious with beliefs that you was told to believe. The other guess is a family, which is important in Russia and to maintain tradition is like to honor ancestors. One of the traditions is to drink vodka at the graveyard with dead relatives. Come with your family to show to dead grandparents their grandchildren. Drink vodka and leave a glass of vodka and a piece of bread to the dead to show that your life is good and you can afford to buy food and entertainment. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great
  - cat199 8y ago
    Nice spin - contrary and conveniently omitted parts from your own wikipedia article, which itself is condensed from the source documents (http://community.dur.ac.uk/a.k.harrington/christin.html http://community.dur.ac.uk/a.k.harrington/christin.html): "Vladimir the Great sent envoys to study the religions of the various neighboring nations ... Of the Muslim Bulgarians of the Volga the envoys reported there is no gladness among them, only sorrow and a great stench ... In the churches of the Germans his emissaries saw no beauty; but at Constantinople, where the full festival ritual of the Byzantine Church was set in motion to impress them, they found their ideal: "We no longer knew whether we were in heaven or on earth", they reported, describing a majestic Divine Liturgy in Hagia Sophia, "nor such beauty, and we know not how to tell of it." Vladimir was impressed by this account of his envoys." but yes, lets highlight the drinking quote and the authority, and ignore the rest. And concerning the Bolsheviks, you state: "Bolsheviks killed priests and then ressurected religion: they were unable to trust to Ortodox Church" This was not a "trust" matter. Marxist ideology holds destruction of religion as a core tenet. nevermind further that bolsheviks were also financed by hostile outside groups, both geographically and theologically..
- tlogan 8y ago
  Yes - there is a lot of pagan traditions still alive and well in Slavic nations. In my personal experience, Slavic nations has much more pagan traditions than Germanic or Romance nations. I assume that pagan traditions were prompted by the state in the same reason how Hitler promoted pagan traditions to unify all Germans.

by ordu 8y ago

acqq 8y ago

Thanks. Wikipedia has the drawing from 1885, i.e. more than two decades before the Soviets existed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B7.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%D0%9C... Anybody knows even older?

aasasd 8y ago

It's curious how Russian (or Slavic?) people never abandoned remnants of pagan traditions despite calling themselves Christians. Fairy tales and merchandise galore, dozens if not hundreds of superstitions. Plenty of older people still believe in folk magic practiced by ‘gifted’ individuals (pretty much witches), though apparently with God's blessing. The same happened with religion and socialism: bolsheviks didn't hold back on killing priests, but the religion went strong (though it's said that the opposition to religion was abandoned in the light of unifying rhetoric of '41–45). Basically, people don't seem to care about ideological purity as long as the rhetoric is attractive.

gbear605 8y ago
What do you think Santa Claus is? He’s certainly not in the bible.
- aasasd 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure saints aren't from paganism.
  - hobgoblin1234 8y ago
    ... syncretism. Heroes with a thousand faces
  - sorokod 8y ago
    The Christian religion with its three gods (https://catholicbible101.com/theholytrinity.htm https://catholicbible101.com/theholytrinity.htm),the cult of virgin mary and multitude of saints - in what significant ways does it differ from paganism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism) ?
  - scottlocklin 8y ago
    You should look a bit harder; some of them seem to be. At least elements of them. Dog faced St. Christopher. St. Brigid. Eostre taking place when it does. Heck, read 'the Heliand.' Early Church fathers were pretty explicit in their reasons for doing this.
pndy 8y ago
There are still people who are worshiping old "forgotten" faith; in some cases they're being used by political entities who are incorporating Slavic faith under Pan-Slavism ideology (the further on East in Europe, the more often that happens). In most of the cases the blending between Slavic and Christianity occurred and you can see that Dziady were evolved into All Souls' Day, or Noc Kupały - Kupala Night (Midsummer) turned into St. John's Day and so on. But this is not exclusive to Slavic faith - absorption of cults happened in the history many times when those on a stronger position were conquering those who were weaker. Slavs had to abandon their faith in the face of growing Christianity and baptize, turn themselves into Christians in order to avoid being raided by neighbors and treated as infidels.
ordu 8y ago
My guess that it is due to authoritarian nature of any ideology in Russia. Vladimir the Great[1] made some research into modern (to him) religions, selected christianity, and ordered his people to believe into Christ (not Islam because "Drinking is the joy of all Rus'. We cannot exist without that pleasure"). It was all about politics and business, and christianity from the very start in Russia was a tool in a hand of a ruler. Bolsheviks killed priests and then ressurected religion: they were unable to trust to Ortodox Church, so they destroyed it, and then built new trusted Ortodox Church. Top-down approach, you cannot be fully serious with beliefs that you was told to believe. The other guess is a family, which is important in Russia and to maintain tradition is like to honor ancestors. One of the traditions is to drink vodka at the graveyard with dead relatives. Come with your family to show to dead grandparents their grandchildren. Drink vodka and leave a glass of vodka and a piece of bread to the dead to show that your life is good and you can afford to buy food and entertainment. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great
- cat199 8y ago
  Nice spin - contrary and conveniently omitted parts from your own wikipedia article, which itself is condensed from the source documents (http://community.dur.ac.uk/a.k.harrington/christin.html http://community.dur.ac.uk/a.k.harrington/christin.html): "Vladimir the Great sent envoys to study the religions of the various neighboring nations ... Of the Muslim Bulgarians of the Volga the envoys reported there is no gladness among them, only sorrow and a great stench ... In the churches of the Germans his emissaries saw no beauty; but at Constantinople, where the full festival ritual of the Byzantine Church was set in motion to impress them, they found their ideal: "We no longer knew whether we were in heaven or on earth", they reported, describing a majestic Divine Liturgy in Hagia Sophia, "nor such beauty, and we know not how to tell of it." Vladimir was impressed by this account of his envoys." but yes, lets highlight the drinking quote and the authority, and ignore the rest. And concerning the Bolsheviks, you state: "Bolsheviks killed priests and then ressurected religion: they were unable to trust to Ortodox Church" This was not a "trust" matter. Marxist ideology holds destruction of religion as a core tenet. nevermind further that bolsheviks were also financed by hostile outside groups, both geographically and theologically..
tlogan 8y ago
Yes - there is a lot of pagan traditions still alive and well in Slavic nations. In my personal experience, Slavic nations has much more pagan traditions than Germanic or Romance nations. I assume that pagan traditions were prompted by the state in the same reason how Hitler promoted pagan traditions to unify all Germans.