3 ms·

It is supposed to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz, not Santa. (The article somewhat implies that Ded Moroz wa

by js8 8y ago

It is supposed to be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ded_Moroz, not Santa. (The article somewhat implies that Ded Moroz was a communist invention based on Santa Claus, but in fact this is not true.) And you can see even in the postcards and the article that he doesn't necessarily has a red dress, although I suspect (maybe some Russian can clarify) that the red dress is the influence of the West.

petre 8y ago
I suspect it has something to do with the communist revolution rather than the influence of the West
ordu 8y ago
> The article somewhat implies that Ded Moroz was a communist invention based on Santa Claus, but in fact this is not true. It is true to some extent. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that before communist revolution Ded Moroz was not an essential part of christmas. It was mostly fiction and lore character representing winter and cold, and was not connected with christian holidays. It is communist's work to make a strong connection, and it seems as an imitation of Europe and US traditions. > he doesn't necessarily has a red dress, although I suspect (maybe some Russian can clarify) that the red dress is the influence of the West. He have no strong preference for a dress color. Though red and blue are the most frequent. Maybe just because soviet industry made only red and blue dresses for actors playing Ded Moroz. A lack of variety is a known Soviet industy trait.
aasasd 8y ago
Russian Wikipedia says Ded Moroz is a merger of earlier folk and literary characters in Pagan-like tradition, with Saint Nicholas who was imported in the mid- to late 19th century. E.g. this card is Saint Nicholas from sometime before the 1917 revolution: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ded_Moroz_Snegurochka_Christmas_card.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ded_Moroz_Snegurochk... while this is an interpretation of the old Moroz character in traditional garb, by Victor Vasnetsov: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B7.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%... White coat seems to be more in line with the tradition, but frankly I dunno if Ded got much of graphic development before Nick swooped in, as he seems to be more of a figure of fairy tales and some literature. It's left to dig up why the card above depicts a Nicholas of Nast's design.
- cat199 8y ago
  > Saint Nicholas who was imported in the mid- to late 19th century. St. Nicholas is a hugely popular patron saint in the orthodox church, he was not imported from the west. The average person there probably knows more about actual Nicholas from history than many elsewhere. One of the things Nicholas is famous for is punching a heretic and by this and associated actions resolving the huge theological controversy of Arianism and resulting in the nicene creed used directly or as a basis for most other creeds in other forms of christianity (see also great schism & filioque). Incidentally Arianism has a resurgence in some strands of protestantism, which of course, speaking of propaganda, is more prevalent in countries favoring the historically devoid Macy's Red Reindeer 'Santa Claus'.. Here is an article with many russian faithful including Putin venerating a rib bone of st nicholas: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40062807 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40062807 But yes, this does have little to do with the red 'miracle on 34th street' shopping and reindeer st nicholas, and that is probably an import, true more about actual nicholas from a russian-ish source: https://russian-crafts.com/russian-saints-icons/st-nicholas.html https://russian-crafts.com/russian-saints-icons/st-nicholas....
  - aasasd 8y ago
    From what I gathered, Orthodox Nicholas didn't have the habit of giving gifts to kids, which is what the folks sought to borrow from Europe.

by js8 8y ago

petre 8y ago

I suspect it has something to do with the communist revolution rather than the influence of the West

ordu 8y ago

> The article somewhat implies that Ded Moroz was a communist invention based on Santa Claus, but in fact this is not true. It is true to some extent. I'm not sure, but it seems to me that before communist revolution Ded Moroz was not an essential part of christmas. It was mostly fiction and lore character representing winter and cold, and was not connected with christian holidays. It is communist's work to make a strong connection, and it seems as an imitation of Europe and US traditions. > he doesn't necessarily has a red dress, although I suspect (maybe some Russian can clarify) that the red dress is the influence of the West. He have no strong preference for a dress color. Though red and blue are the most frequent. Maybe just because soviet industry made only red and blue dresses for actors playing Ded Moroz. A lack of variety is a known Soviet industy trait.

aasasd 8y ago

Russian Wikipedia says Ded Moroz is a merger of earlier folk and literary characters in Pagan-like tradition, with Saint Nicholas who was imported in the mid- to late 19th century. E.g. this card is Saint Nicholas from sometime before the 1917 revolution: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ded_Moroz_Snegurochka_Christmas_card.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ded_Moroz_Snegurochk... while this is an interpretation of the old Moroz character in traditional garb, by Victor Vasnetsov: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%D0%9C%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B7.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B4_%... White coat seems to be more in line with the tradition, but frankly I dunno if Ded got much of graphic development before Nick swooped in, as he seems to be more of a figure of fairy tales and some literature. It's left to dig up why the card above depicts a Nicholas of Nast's design.

cat199 8y ago
> Saint Nicholas who was imported in the mid- to late 19th century. St. Nicholas is a hugely popular patron saint in the orthodox church, he was not imported from the west. The average person there probably knows more about actual Nicholas from history than many elsewhere. One of the things Nicholas is famous for is punching a heretic and by this and associated actions resolving the huge theological controversy of Arianism and resulting in the nicene creed used directly or as a basis for most other creeds in other forms of christianity (see also great schism & filioque). Incidentally Arianism has a resurgence in some strands of protestantism, which of course, speaking of propaganda, is more prevalent in countries favoring the historically devoid Macy's Red Reindeer 'Santa Claus'.. Here is an article with many russian faithful including Putin venerating a rib bone of st nicholas: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40062807 https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40062807 But yes, this does have little to do with the red 'miracle on 34th street' shopping and reindeer st nicholas, and that is probably an import, true more about actual nicholas from a russian-ish source: https://russian-crafts.com/russian-saints-icons/st-nicholas.html https://russian-crafts.com/russian-saints-icons/st-nicholas....
- aasasd 8y ago
  From what I gathered, Orthodox Nicholas didn't have the habit of giving gifts to kids, which is what the folks sought to borrow from Europe.