5 ms·

I don't know, if people could buy a 'personal cloud box' that is as user friendly as an iphone, for less than a 100 dollars, a substantial number of them might

I don't know, if people could buy a 'personal cloud box' that is as user friendly as an iphone, for less than a 100 dollars, a substantial number of them might possibly do that.

ArtDev 8y ago
I love my Synology NAS server :) Though its not really simple enough for non-technical people to set up.
- taohansen 8y ago
  I also love my Synology DS-218+. I'm hosting my own Spotify (Airsonic [1]); music tagged to perfection with Beets [2]), an IRC bouncer because Matrix is still not ready, my own Netflix (Synology's Video Station [3]), and my own mailserver (Synology's MailPlus Server [4]). I've been giving out access to this pod to close friends. It's empowering and community-building. This is the kind of social network I desire: close-knit around the warm glow of a server. It's really self-host heaven. I don't pay for Fastmail, Spotify, or video streaming anymore. [1] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-airsonic https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-airsonic [2] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-beets https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-beets [3] https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/feature/video_station https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/feature/video_station [4] https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/mailplus https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/mailplus
  - deevolution 8y ago
    Sick, now turn this into a product that can be adopted by the masses!
    - eitland 8y ago
      I have an older Synology. It is already ready for the masses. Why: You only need one one for a family and most of the time there's already a person in the family who does "PC stuff". And even if there isn't there's always someone who'll learn it if a friend has one. The rest of this post is not targeted at you but rather on a whole attitude here at HN: ------------------------------- Anyone who can operate a web browser, has any education in IT and knows enough English to read instructions in the box should be able to set up one. In fact I think just being able to read the quick start instructions should be enough to install one with basic features. Setting up websites in the 90ies - early 2000s were a lot harder. Same goes for using older PCs with DOS. A major problem today seems to be learned helplessnes. In our well meant and to some degree profitable[0] effort to make sure anyone can use anything we have are creating a situation were people are more helpless . Seriously: if app stores and walled gardens had been introduced first the web and email had been considered to complicated now. I can imagine HN: """You mean my siblings, parents and grandparents are going to install this "e-mail" thing? Even if they were able to configure "smtp" and whatnot they'd forget the "email address" or even how to start it before tomorrow.""" [0:]: if anyone doesn't catch my drift, your brightest customers might not be the ones who pays most ;-) Edits: a number of them :-)
      - zbentley 8y ago
        > most of the time there's already a person in the family who does "PC stuff". And even if there isn't there's always someone who'll learn it if a friend has one. That's not true at all. Confirmation bias is rough when you're technical; you keep spotting other technical people.
        eitland 8y ago
        Was about to disagree strongly with your conclusion but you have a point. Not everyone had a web site. But I'm not totally convinced either: email has been huge despite the configuration needed, also with people who had to take it step by step twice and make notes while doing it. Some figured it out on their own (or more realistically using the step by instructions that came bundled with their first modem). Other had a son or a grandson who'd picked it up at school. Others got it at work. My grandparents where the youngest group of people I can think of that didn't have access to email somehow. And my wifes grandparents have/had access to mail and used actual mail clients too, not just Hotmail or Gmail.
carlosdp 8y ago
These products have existed for a while and don't really make a dent.
- stephenhuey 8y ago
  I don't think I've encountered any super simple appliance I can plug into my home network and move data onto and then easily give online services I trust access to its data. Ever since I heard about Tim Berners Lee's new project, the Solid POD (Personal Online Datastore), I've been thinking about how to make it friendly enough to people that they'd actually use it in large enough numbers to gain traction. It always seemed like people would have to learn to start paying at least a little money to make privacy work without advertising dollars. I just Googled around for the latest and noticed that the MeWe social network (which emphasizes privacy) which Tim is working with offers a free tier on data but then charges above 8 GB. I wonder if their long game on being sustainable is to just make money on add-ons above the free tier. Here's hoping it catches on... https://mewe.com/faq https://mewe.com/faq
TuringTest 8y ago
A 'personal' cloud box is not enough. We need a 'social' cloud box which can talk to the equivalent boxes at the homes of our relatives and acquittances, and which are as easy to set up as logging into a centralized social network.
- pizzazzaro 8y ago
  Mastadon meets Dropbox, with a content navigation interface thrown on top?
  - TuringTest 8y ago
    Yes, that's the thing. We know how it should be used because people are already using such systems. We need that no part of the system is owned by a single organization.
    - dcbadacd 8y ago
      And the biggest issue of them all, keeping it absolutely secure while doing all that. It would be a killing blow to the venture if someone got their data stolen.
      - ska 8y ago
        The existing centralized systems set a pretty low bar for that, to be honest.
        dcbadacd 8y ago
        I do not think current big centralized systems are a low bar, the attacks get more and more sophisticated, but mom&pop/volunteer/etc. systems still get exploited in the most banal ways possible.
    - alexis_read 8y ago
      https://project.hubzilla.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project https://project.hubzilla.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project This is what hubzilla can do, along with using the Zot protocol for distributed identity.The main issue really is having an easy wizard-based installation/configuration for new users wanting to host.
TheOperator 8y ago
The issue such devices have in practice is upfront cost, compatibility, the need for port forwarding, and the lack of redundancy so you don't lose your data. Among other problems but these come to mind. Centralization solves those problems because you can connect to a server instead of port forwarding, your data might be stored across 3 servers, the cloud storage might be as cheap as free, and applications are designed to work seamlessly with a small number of big cloud providers. In the depths of my soul I would love to re-decentralize the web. I truly believe data centralization will cause people to suffer a lot. decentralized tech needs to solve so many problems before alternatives to centralization become viable. Centralized approaches also improve over time and are a moving target to keep up with.
- deevolution 8y ago
  Dont forget about device maintenance, which is a huge burden. Users of centralized services never have to worry about upkeep.
- maccam94 8y ago
  IPv6 will help by eliminating NAT (and thus port forwarding problems). IPFS might help with redundancy. But yeah the cost and complexity are major problems. I think the biggest problem is making open standards that can evolve quickly. All the big chat platforms have switched to proprietary protocols so they can iterate and roll out changes on their own.
  - ndnxhs 8y ago
    Basically all home routers block incoming connection because so many shitty IoT devices were built to trust anything that is able to connect to it. My router doesn't even have an option to turn off the block. Can only unblock ports 1 by 1
    - nicoburns 8y ago
      I guess the route around this would be for the maker of these devices to partner with router companies. Alternatively, they could also be routers. That would potentially make quite a lot of sense...
taohansen 8y ago
I'm not certain we need to make this accessible to "the next billion". We like to dress up these actions in virtue but the truth is we hook people up because it's a business. Facebook devastated our social fabric. I don't think it should have been invented. But here we are with its nuclear fallout all because some young douche thought it was a good idea. If everyone owned a personal cloud box, security procedures would quickly fall off a cliff, those people are now the new botnet. Maybe leave people alone, stop sticking our fingers in all the places they might stick to money. Let the geeks take care of their little tribe.

I don't know, if people could buy a 'personal cloud box' that is as user friendly as an iphone, for less than a 100 dollars, a substantial number of them might possibly do that.

ArtDev 8y ago

I love my Synology NAS server :) Though its not really simple enough for non-technical people to set up.

taohansen 8y ago
I also love my Synology DS-218+. I'm hosting my own Spotify (Airsonic [1]); music tagged to perfection with Beets [2]), an IRC bouncer because Matrix is still not ready, my own Netflix (Synology's Video Station [3]), and my own mailserver (Synology's MailPlus Server [4]). I've been giving out access to this pod to close friends. It's empowering and community-building. This is the kind of social network I desire: close-knit around the warm glow of a server. It's really self-host heaven. I don't pay for Fastmail, Spotify, or video streaming anymore. [1] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-airsonic https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-airsonic [2] https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-beets https://github.com/linuxserver/docker-beets [3] https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/feature/video_station https://www.synology.com/en-global/dsm/feature/video_station [4] https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/mailplus https://www.synology.com/en-us/dsm/feature/mailplus
- deevolution 8y ago
  Sick, now turn this into a product that can be adopted by the masses!
  - eitland 8y ago
    I have an older Synology. It is already ready for the masses. Why: You only need one one for a family and most of the time there's already a person in the family who does "PC stuff". And even if there isn't there's always someone who'll learn it if a friend has one. The rest of this post is not targeted at you but rather on a whole attitude here at HN: ------------------------------- Anyone who can operate a web browser, has any education in IT and knows enough English to read instructions in the box should be able to set up one. In fact I think just being able to read the quick start instructions should be enough to install one with basic features. Setting up websites in the 90ies - early 2000s were a lot harder. Same goes for using older PCs with DOS. A major problem today seems to be learned helplessnes. In our well meant and to some degree profitable[0] effort to make sure anyone can use anything we have are creating a situation were people are more helpless . Seriously: if app stores and walled gardens had been introduced first the web and email had been considered to complicated now. I can imagine HN: """You mean my siblings, parents and grandparents are going to install this "e-mail" thing? Even if they were able to configure "smtp" and whatnot they'd forget the "email address" or even how to start it before tomorrow.""" [0:]: if anyone doesn't catch my drift, your brightest customers might not be the ones who pays most ;-) Edits: a number of them :-)
    - zbentley 8y ago
      > most of the time there's already a person in the family who does "PC stuff". And even if there isn't there's always someone who'll learn it if a friend has one. That's not true at all. Confirmation bias is rough when you're technical; you keep spotting other technical people.
      - eitland 8y ago
        Was about to disagree strongly with your conclusion but you have a point. Not everyone had a web site. But I'm not totally convinced either: email has been huge despite the configuration needed, also with people who had to take it step by step twice and make notes while doing it. Some figured it out on their own (or more realistically using the step by instructions that came bundled with their first modem). Other had a son or a grandson who'd picked it up at school. Others got it at work. My grandparents where the youngest group of people I can think of that didn't have access to email somehow. And my wifes grandparents have/had access to mail and used actual mail clients too, not just Hotmail or Gmail.

carlosdp 8y ago

These products have existed for a while and don't really make a dent.

stephenhuey 8y ago
I don't think I've encountered any super simple appliance I can plug into my home network and move data onto and then easily give online services I trust access to its data. Ever since I heard about Tim Berners Lee's new project, the Solid POD (Personal Online Datastore), I've been thinking about how to make it friendly enough to people that they'd actually use it in large enough numbers to gain traction. It always seemed like people would have to learn to start paying at least a little money to make privacy work without advertising dollars. I just Googled around for the latest and noticed that the MeWe social network (which emphasizes privacy) which Tim is working with offers a free tier on data but then charges above 8 GB. I wonder if their long game on being sustainable is to just make money on add-ons above the free tier. Here's hoping it catches on... https://mewe.com/faq https://mewe.com/faq

TuringTest 8y ago

A 'personal' cloud box is not enough. We need a 'social' cloud box which can talk to the equivalent boxes at the homes of our relatives and acquittances, and which are as easy to set up as logging into a centralized social network.

pizzazzaro 8y ago
Mastadon meets Dropbox, with a content navigation interface thrown on top?
- TuringTest 8y ago
  Yes, that's the thing. We know how it should be used because people are already using such systems. We need that no part of the system is owned by a single organization.
  - dcbadacd 8y ago
    And the biggest issue of them all, keeping it absolutely secure while doing all that. It would be a killing blow to the venture if someone got their data stolen.
    - ska 8y ago
      The existing centralized systems set a pretty low bar for that, to be honest.
      - dcbadacd 8y ago
        I do not think current big centralized systems are a low bar, the attacks get more and more sophisticated, but mom&pop/volunteer/etc. systems still get exploited in the most banal ways possible.
  - alexis_read 8y ago
    https://project.hubzilla.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project https://project.hubzilla.org/page/hubzilla/hubzilla-project This is what hubzilla can do, along with using the Zot protocol for distributed identity.The main issue really is having an easy wizard-based installation/configuration for new users wanting to host.

TheOperator 8y ago

The issue such devices have in practice is upfront cost, compatibility, the need for port forwarding, and the lack of redundancy so you don't lose your data. Among other problems but these come to mind. Centralization solves those problems because you can connect to a server instead of port forwarding, your data might be stored across 3 servers, the cloud storage might be as cheap as free, and applications are designed to work seamlessly with a small number of big cloud providers. In the depths of my soul I would love to re-decentralize the web. I truly believe data centralization will cause people to suffer a lot. decentralized tech needs to solve so many problems before alternatives to centralization become viable. Centralized approaches also improve over time and are a moving target to keep up with.

deevolution 8y ago
Dont forget about device maintenance, which is a huge burden. Users of centralized services never have to worry about upkeep.
maccam94 8y ago
IPv6 will help by eliminating NAT (and thus port forwarding problems). IPFS might help with redundancy. But yeah the cost and complexity are major problems. I think the biggest problem is making open standards that can evolve quickly. All the big chat platforms have switched to proprietary protocols so they can iterate and roll out changes on their own.
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  Basically all home routers block incoming connection because so many shitty IoT devices were built to trust anything that is able to connect to it. My router doesn't even have an option to turn off the block. Can only unblock ports 1 by 1
  - nicoburns 8y ago
    I guess the route around this would be for the maker of these devices to partner with router companies. Alternatively, they could also be routers. That would potentially make quite a lot of sense...

taohansen 8y ago

I'm not certain we need to make this accessible to "the next billion". We like to dress up these actions in virtue but the truth is we hook people up because it's a business. Facebook devastated our social fabric. I don't think it should have been invented. But here we are with its nuclear fallout all because some young douche thought it was a good idea. If everyone owned a personal cloud box, security procedures would quickly fall off a cliff, those people are now the new botnet. Maybe leave people alone, stop sticking our fingers in all the places they might stick to money. Let the geeks take care of their little tribe.