6 ms·

Debussy’s Radical Search for Simplicity

100 points by overwhelm 8y ago

abalone 8y ago
Pour le piano is to me one of the greatest piano works.
WhompingWindows 8y ago
I love the mixture of pentatonic, modal, tonal, and atonal in the works of Debussy. He toes the line of modernity with wit, charm, and absolute beauty. For wit, check out Gradus ad Parnassum, a super bouncy piece in a beginner-friendly key. For charm, go with Arabesque No 1. Absolute beauty lies in store in Claire de Lune, yes, but also in The Sunken Cathedral, in the string quartet, and in the vocal music. He has astonishing creativity, look at his Preludes, his opera, or his Afternoon of a Faun for that, wow, sheer creativity. Debussy (or perhaps Ravel) may be the one composer who most successfully commanded the widest range of tonal devices, before the modernists like Stravinsky and Schoenberg pushed tonality to its breaking point/broke it. Debussy was not the only innovator, as we saw innovation and creativity from Bach to Mozart, Debussy to Chopin, however I'd argue Debussy was the true bridge into modernity. Debussy harmonic analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbjWgfNoO2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbjWgfNoO2U
curlcntr 8y ago
Its interesting to see the influence of Debussy through time. For example the wonderful work of Bill Evans.
- briandear 8y ago
  The opening chords of So What capture this feeling perfectly.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Apparently those (jazz) guys called the 4ths voicings like in So What 'Ravel chords'. And the (Peace Piece-derived) Flamenco Sketches I can't help but think owes something to the first movement of Mahler's 9th, which even has the 'down a major 3rd' progression. (C -> Ab in F.S., D -> Bb in the Mahler) ..Speaking of which, I didn't learn until recently that James Brown stole the 'booo-dap' riff from So What for (maybe his greatest song), Cold Sweat. Apparently he wanted a song with horns going 'booo-dap' just like So What..it's even in the same key, almost the same voicing.
nateburke 8y ago
One interesting branch of Debussy's legacy is _spectral music_, e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6WXzOIsBuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6WXzOIsBuQ
ssmmww 8y ago
To my not-very-well-trained ear, almost all composers before Debussy sound a little dated, corny, and constrained, and most composers after him - Bartok and Messiaen being important exceptions! - sound abstract and unmusical. Debussy's music is at this equilibrium point where the harmonic language is complex and atonal enough to evoke a spectrum of iridescent colours and haunting, ambiguous moods inaccessible to traditional common-practice harmony, but just constrained enough to avoid the descent into hostility and noise.
- vfinn 8y ago
  I don't know. As a hobby composer this sounds so wrong. All compositions are restricted more or less. What's missing from Beethoven's 5th? Corny? outdated? What's missing from Vivaldi's pure childlike harmony? Chopin's nocturnes? Bach's complex counterpoint in the Art of Fugue?! Different eras are just... different, but like different flowers, or a glass of water to beer, not one above all else. This might sound corny. They say Schoenberg pushed tonality to its limits, but to me there's so much ground to be explored harmonically and rhythmically way past Debussy and others, and way past tonality in general. How's abstract not musical? Think of extending Bach's complex counterpoint with AI; think of moving away from discreteness; think of adding technical extensions to every instrument of the orchestra in order to create new possibilities of sound; think of going past the 12 notes. Looking at it this way, Debussy is also very restricted in terms of depth and in terms of notes on and between the lines.
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    Someone modestly shares with you their musical tastes - To my not-very-well-trained ear - and you tell them what they say 'sounds so wrong'?! I don't think tastes can be 'wrong'. You sound like you think your tastes are reasonable and no-one else's are.
    - explainplease 8y ago
      Unlike yours, his comment was interesting. You even didn't understand his comment, as he said eras are different and not better than one another, which is what you're saying. Relax and don't be the you-sound-like police.

100 points by overwhelm 8y ago

Pour le piano is to me one of the greatest piano works.

I love the mixture of pentatonic, modal, tonal, and atonal in the works of Debussy. He toes the line of modernity with wit, charm, and absolute beauty. For wit, check out Gradus ad Parnassum, a super bouncy piece in a beginner-friendly key. For charm, go with Arabesque No 1. Absolute beauty lies in store in Claire de Lune, yes, but also in The Sunken Cathedral, in the string quartet, and in the vocal music. He has astonishing creativity, look at his Preludes, his opera, or his Afternoon of a Faun for that, wow, sheer creativity. Debussy (or perhaps Ravel) may be the one composer who most successfully commanded the widest range of tonal devices, before the modernists like Stravinsky and Schoenberg pushed tonality to its breaking point/broke it. Debussy was not the only innovator, as we saw innovation and creativity from Bach to Mozart, Debussy to Chopin, however I'd argue Debussy was the true bridge into modernity. Debussy harmonic analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbjWgfNoO2U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbjWgfNoO2U

curlcntr 8y ago

Its interesting to see the influence of Debussy through time. For example the wonderful work of Bill Evans.

briandear 8y ago
The opening chords of So What capture this feeling perfectly.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Apparently those (jazz) guys called the 4ths voicings like in So What 'Ravel chords'. And the (Peace Piece-derived) Flamenco Sketches I can't help but think owes something to the first movement of Mahler's 9th, which even has the 'down a major 3rd' progression. (C -> Ab in F.S., D -> Bb in the Mahler) ..Speaking of which, I didn't learn until recently that James Brown stole the 'booo-dap' riff from So What for (maybe his greatest song), Cold Sweat. Apparently he wanted a song with horns going 'booo-dap' just like So What..it's even in the same key, almost the same voicing.

nateburke 8y ago

One interesting branch of Debussy's legacy is _spectral music_, e.g.: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6WXzOIsBuQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6WXzOIsBuQ

ssmmww 8y ago

To my not-very-well-trained ear, almost all composers before Debussy sound a little dated, corny, and constrained, and most composers after him - Bartok and Messiaen being important exceptions! - sound abstract and unmusical. Debussy's music is at this equilibrium point where the harmonic language is complex and atonal enough to evoke a spectrum of iridescent colours and haunting, ambiguous moods inaccessible to traditional common-practice harmony, but just constrained enough to avoid the descent into hostility and noise.

vfinn 8y ago
I don't know. As a hobby composer this sounds so wrong. All compositions are restricted more or less. What's missing from Beethoven's 5th? Corny? outdated? What's missing from Vivaldi's pure childlike harmony? Chopin's nocturnes? Bach's complex counterpoint in the Art of Fugue?! Different eras are just... different, but like different flowers, or a glass of water to beer, not one above all else. This might sound corny. They say Schoenberg pushed tonality to its limits, but to me there's so much ground to be explored harmonically and rhythmically way past Debussy and others, and way past tonality in general. How's abstract not musical? Think of extending Bach's complex counterpoint with AI; think of moving away from discreteness; think of adding technical extensions to every instrument of the orchestra in order to create new possibilities of sound; think of going past the 12 notes. Looking at it this way, Debussy is also very restricted in terms of depth and in terms of notes on and between the lines.
- yesenadam 8y ago
  Someone modestly shares with you their musical tastes - To my not-very-well-trained ear - and you tell them what they say 'sounds so wrong'?! I don't think tastes can be 'wrong'. You sound like you think your tastes are reasonable and no-one else's are.
  - explainplease 8y ago
    Unlike yours, his comment was interesting. You even didn't understand his comment, as he said eras are different and not better than one another, which is what you're saying. Relax and don't be the you-sound-like police.