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As far as the advertising is concerned Google is no different(and so FB etc). Anyone with few bucks will know your location or better said will target you with

As far as the advertising is concerned Google is no different(and so FB etc). Anyone with few bucks will know your location or better said will target you with ads. With Google they won't target only by location because as you said Google makes the OS so it knows pretty much everything about you.

guelo 8y ago
That's just not true. There's a reason the bounty hunters don't use Google Ads to locate individuals but they do use AT&T.
- kaybe 8y ago
  Well, they're going to use whatever is easiest. I don't think this is a strong argument.
vkou 8y ago
Please show me where I can buy thefounder's location data from Google. Which service is that, and how much do I need to pay? I can't find it at https://www.google.com/about/products/ https://www.google.com/about/products/ > better said will target you with ads. The difference between selling location data, and selling ad targeting, is the difference between actively stalking someone, and sending unsolicited spam to "Current resident" at "Every address in a city block". What harm can I inflict to you, via targeted ads? Some. You can think of some creative ways to do so, but it's not a very effective way to inflict harm. What harm can I inflict to you, via buying your location data? A hell of a lot. If you don't trust Google to be a good steward of your data, that's one thing. But let's not conflate selling your data, with selling the ability to mass-advertise to a demographic that includes you.
- pjc50 8y ago
  > selling the ability to mass-advertise to a demographic that includes you. A while ago there were some fun articles about "how to prank your roommate by creating an audience of 1 and running creepily personalised adverts". What's the smallest demographic you can define on google?
  - vkou 8y ago
    I don't know - which is why I leave the caveat that some creative forms of harm with targeted advertising may be possible.
- lancesells 8y ago
  > What harm can I inflict to you, via targeted ads? Some. You can think of some creative ways to do so, but it's not a very effective way to inflict harm. Do you see how people have weaponized social media through data? Google ads might not have been used in a nefarious way just yet but that's likely because it hasn't been thought of.
  - vkou 8y ago
    With ratings, on a scale of one to ten, how would you compare the individual harm of someone showing you a demographic-targeted ad[1], to someone having the real-time location data sufficient to start physically stalking you? What about someone showing you an untargeted ad? Where would that fit in? [1] Or, if you prefer, a remarketing ad, instead. I have very little patience for those.
    - taneq 8y ago
      The harm to me isn't the harm of someone showing me a demographic-targeted ad, the harm is someone showing everyone demographic-targeted ads designed to manipulate public opinion. Remember how everyone got very hot and bothered about precisely this thing happening in a recent U.S. election?
      - vkou 8y ago
        Why are cookie-based demographic-targeting ads that manipulate public opinion bad, while demographic-targeting ads on television, in magazines, etc, are fine? Is it because more targeted ad spend is more efficient? If your problem is that advertising is used to manipulate public opinion - consider - why do we even allow political campaigns and paid speech? Its only purpose is to manipulate public opinion, and to trick stupid voters into voting for bad people. I'm afraid your position is not entirely ideologically consistent with how we determine what kind of political speech is allowed, and is not allowed.
- thefounder 8y ago
  Unless you are on the run the location data is not really that valuable. I could physically stalk you after all without buying the data from telecom companies. With Facebook the advertising can be quite precise. I remeber I read somewhere that you could actually target specific persons.
stdgy 8y ago
I don't think that's the case at all. As far as I know, advertisers never receive personal information from Google. Google hordes the personal information and shows advertisements (provided by the advertisers) to their users, using their personal information. It would be rather contrary to their interests if they were to send their user's data to other parties. They'd lose their commercial leverage and their ad network would become less valuable.

guelo 8y ago

That's just not true. There's a reason the bounty hunters don't use Google Ads to locate individuals but they do use AT&T.

kaybe 8y ago
Well, they're going to use whatever is easiest. I don't think this is a strong argument.

vkou 8y ago

Please show me where I can buy thefounder's location data from Google. Which service is that, and how much do I need to pay? I can't find it at https://www.google.com/about/products/ https://www.google.com/about/products/ > better said will target you with ads. The difference between selling location data, and selling ad targeting, is the difference between actively stalking someone, and sending unsolicited spam to "Current resident" at "Every address in a city block". What harm can I inflict to you, via targeted ads? Some. You can think of some creative ways to do so, but it's not a very effective way to inflict harm. What harm can I inflict to you, via buying your location data? A hell of a lot. If you don't trust Google to be a good steward of your data, that's one thing. But let's not conflate selling your data, with selling the ability to mass-advertise to a demographic that includes you.

pjc50 8y ago
> selling the ability to mass-advertise to a demographic that includes you. A while ago there were some fun articles about "how to prank your roommate by creating an audience of 1 and running creepily personalised adverts". What's the smallest demographic you can define on google?
- vkou 8y ago
  I don't know - which is why I leave the caveat that some creative forms of harm with targeted advertising may be possible.
lancesells 8y ago
> What harm can I inflict to you, via targeted ads? Some. You can think of some creative ways to do so, but it's not a very effective way to inflict harm. Do you see how people have weaponized social media through data? Google ads might not have been used in a nefarious way just yet but that's likely because it hasn't been thought of.
- vkou 8y ago
  With ratings, on a scale of one to ten, how would you compare the individual harm of someone showing you a demographic-targeted ad[1], to someone having the real-time location data sufficient to start physically stalking you? What about someone showing you an untargeted ad? Where would that fit in? [1] Or, if you prefer, a remarketing ad, instead. I have very little patience for those.
  - taneq 8y ago
    The harm to me isn't the harm of someone showing me a demographic-targeted ad, the harm is someone showing everyone demographic-targeted ads designed to manipulate public opinion. Remember how everyone got very hot and bothered about precisely this thing happening in a recent U.S. election?
    - vkou 8y ago
      Why are cookie-based demographic-targeting ads that manipulate public opinion bad, while demographic-targeting ads on television, in magazines, etc, are fine? Is it because more targeted ad spend is more efficient? If your problem is that advertising is used to manipulate public opinion - consider - why do we even allow political campaigns and paid speech? Its only purpose is to manipulate public opinion, and to trick stupid voters into voting for bad people. I'm afraid your position is not entirely ideologically consistent with how we determine what kind of political speech is allowed, and is not allowed.
thefounder 8y ago
Unless you are on the run the location data is not really that valuable. I could physically stalk you after all without buying the data from telecom companies. With Facebook the advertising can be quite precise. I remeber I read somewhere that you could actually target specific persons.

stdgy 8y ago

I don't think that's the case at all. As far as I know, advertisers never receive personal information from Google. Google hordes the personal information and shows advertisements (provided by the advertisers) to their users, using their personal information. It would be rather contrary to their interests if they were to send their user's data to other parties. They'd lose their commercial leverage and their ad network would become less valuable.