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How people's sentiments change here based on who tries to protect their privacy. If it's Apple, "wow, they are god's own people with purest intentions of protec

How people's sentiments change here based on who tries to protect their privacy. If it's Apple, "wow, they are god's own people with purest intentions of protecting users' privacy". When Google does it : "Yeah, because they want to sell it themselves so obviously they don't want any competition".

protomyth 8y ago
Because its hard to believe Google is protecting our privacy instead of protecting its own turf. Google does that, Apple doesn't. The interesting case would be if Microsoft still had a horse in the game. Given Windows 10 you might see the same reaction.
- ucaetano 8y ago
  Oh, Apple does when it is required to make money, like in China. They handed over all iCloud data to the government. Companies are companies, they don't "care" about privacy, or anything at all. Google, Apple, Facebook, they're all in this for the money. And that is fine. The sooner we realize that, the better.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Every company follows the law of each country they are in unless they are criminals. China is a country that affords no privacy.
    - ucaetano 8y ago
      Yes, and faced with the option of making money in China and eliminating any and all user privacy, or not making money in China, Apple chose the former.
      - protomyth 8y ago
        Comparing following laws in a country with willingly compromising privacy in a country that does not compel the company to do it is some serious false equivalence.
        ucaetano 8y ago
        No, willingly entering and operating in a country where you know you will have to compromise on privacy is putting profits ahead of privacy. Take the Google/China situation. If Google entered China and handed over all info on Chinese users to the government, it would be doing exactly the same that Apple does now. Just like other companies, Apple cares more about profits than privacy, so it will operate in China for the profits, even if it has to infringe on the privacy of every single user there.
- dustinmr 8y ago
  Apple doesn’t do that? You enjoy using iMessages on your android phone and Linux laptop do you? Yeah, yeah, it’s different. Except that it’s the same in the areas in which each competes. There’s plenty of examples of Apple freezing out others from a market.
  - protomyth 8y ago
    Apple doesn't sell data to third parties, so Apple doesn't do that.
    - icelancer 8y ago
      Yeah, they just gave it to China.
      - noxToken 8y ago
        Selling user data to a 3rd party company and turning over user data to a local government are two very different things. They both have their own sets of implications. Ideally, you'd wish that a company would never turn your personal data over to either. However, governments and 3rd parties are very much not the same.
        piyush_soni 8y ago
        Wait. Isn't everyone talking about how Apple is "fighting" the goverment / FBI for protecting their users' privacy in the US? But sharing with the Chinese goverment is ok because otherwise they won't be allowed to function there. Am I right? So that means they're not that big on fighting for your privacy is their business suffers because of that. In the US in fact their business is growing because of this little stunt they had with the FBI so they continue it.
penagwin 8y ago
One is a massive advertising company that makes the vast majority of it's money on advertising and has a history of invasive privacy issues. The other one AFAIK doesn't sell user data, has publicly denied to help the FBI (Have other companies done that? If not then they assume complied), and has put in a large amount of effort to protect privacy (It's one of the main arguments of why IOS/OSX is so locked down). Obviously this doesn't mean apple doesn't do bad things behind the scenes, but based on the information available to us is why people trust them more with privacy then google.
- kllrnohj 8y ago
  > Have other companies done that? If not then they assume complied Google literally lead the charge on this with their transparency report for government data requests and won huge victories in allowing for the reporting of things like FISA requests. It's great that Apple has followed Google's lead and also publishes a transparency report, but their own report also clearly shows that they DO comply with government requests: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html And both Google & Apple have comparable percentages of requests honored per their own reports. Regardless an "assume complied" is an illogical position to take here. Assume a company did work that they didn't have to for one-off requests? That's a safe thing to assume they didn't do. Assume they did nothing, because that's way easier, cheaper, and simpler for them. Which means assume they didn't help anyone, including the FBI. > large amount of effort to protect privacy (It's one of the main arguments of why IOS/OSX is so locked down). No. iOS / OSX are locked down to prevent competition. There's no privacy benefit in keeping the user from poking at their own device. Apple did a lot of work specifically to enable apps to do things like track a user's location in the background. Things that didn't used to be possible, but which Apple put in work to do. The only significant thing they did here on iOS was make it a runtime permission, which other platforms have similarly done. OSX continues to have no real restrictions or enforcement for apps, except to try and prevent you from installing them outside of the app store. They put more effort into bragging about their privacy than they did in actually improving privacy. Advertising turns out to be extremely effective, as Apple frequently proves.
- Spooky23 8y ago
max76 8y ago
It's simple. Apple doesn't use location data in their products. Google does. Apple specifically avoids these types of products. Google's main revenue stream depends on them.
- kodablah 8y ago
  This is about partnering with carriers that do bad things. One company that partnered with these carriers said "stop that" (granted not with enough eagerness/transparency for me). Another that partners with carriers remains mum. > Apple specifically avoids these types of products. No, Apple specifically partners with the companies selling this stuff and don't care at all. They could easily issue a statement saying they disagree with those they shake hands and share money with, but they won't. Google will though.
wtmt 8y ago
That's pretty easy to conclude based on the business models of said companies. Why would anyone want to reach a different conclusion, especially when Google has shown apathy towards location data collection on Android, bypassing Safari's cookie handling to track users, etc.? The writing on the wall is crystal clear.
- piyush_soni 8y ago
  Apple was caught storing iphone users' location history in plain text! What are we talking here?
  - pdimitar 8y ago
    Source?
    - piyush_soni 8y ago
      Here : The location data was stored unencrypted on the device and most users didn't even know about it ! - http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/04/apple-location-tracking.html http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/04/apple-location-tracking.htm...
      - wtmt 8y ago
        That’s from 2011. If you compare issues introduced, remedies and preventive actions by the said conpanies since that time, you’d still find Apple leagues ahead of Google or Facebook (and Is say that Facebook isn’t even in the running).
        piyush_soni 8y ago
        Can you list how many such issues were introduced by Google and where they lacked in the preventive actions?

protomyth 8y ago

Because its hard to believe Google is protecting our privacy instead of protecting its own turf. Google does that, Apple doesn't. The interesting case would be if Microsoft still had a horse in the game. Given Windows 10 you might see the same reaction.

ucaetano 8y ago
Oh, Apple does when it is required to make money, like in China. They handed over all iCloud data to the government. Companies are companies, they don't "care" about privacy, or anything at all. Google, Apple, Facebook, they're all in this for the money. And that is fine. The sooner we realize that, the better.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Every company follows the law of each country they are in unless they are criminals. China is a country that affords no privacy.
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    Yes, and faced with the option of making money in China and eliminating any and all user privacy, or not making money in China, Apple chose the former.
    - protomyth 8y ago
      Comparing following laws in a country with willingly compromising privacy in a country that does not compel the company to do it is some serious false equivalence.
      - ucaetano 8y ago
        No, willingly entering and operating in a country where you know you will have to compromise on privacy is putting profits ahead of privacy. Take the Google/China situation. If Google entered China and handed over all info on Chinese users to the government, it would be doing exactly the same that Apple does now. Just like other companies, Apple cares more about profits than privacy, so it will operate in China for the profits, even if it has to infringe on the privacy of every single user there.
dustinmr 8y ago
Apple doesn’t do that? You enjoy using iMessages on your android phone and Linux laptop do you? Yeah, yeah, it’s different. Except that it’s the same in the areas in which each competes. There’s plenty of examples of Apple freezing out others from a market.
- protomyth 8y ago
  Apple doesn't sell data to third parties, so Apple doesn't do that.
  - icelancer 8y ago
    Yeah, they just gave it to China.
    - noxToken 8y ago
      Selling user data to a 3rd party company and turning over user data to a local government are two very different things. They both have their own sets of implications. Ideally, you'd wish that a company would never turn your personal data over to either. However, governments and 3rd parties are very much not the same.
      - piyush_soni 8y ago
        Wait. Isn't everyone talking about how Apple is "fighting" the goverment / FBI for protecting their users' privacy in the US? But sharing with the Chinese goverment is ok because otherwise they won't be allowed to function there. Am I right? So that means they're not that big on fighting for your privacy is their business suffers because of that. In the US in fact their business is growing because of this little stunt they had with the FBI so they continue it.

penagwin 8y ago

One is a massive advertising company that makes the vast majority of it's money on advertising and has a history of invasive privacy issues. The other one AFAIK doesn't sell user data, has publicly denied to help the FBI (Have other companies done that? If not then they assume complied), and has put in a large amount of effort to protect privacy (It's one of the main arguments of why IOS/OSX is so locked down). Obviously this doesn't mean apple doesn't do bad things behind the scenes, but based on the information available to us is why people trust them more with privacy then google.

kllrnohj 8y ago
> Have other companies done that? If not then they assume complied Google literally lead the charge on this with their transparency report for government data requests and won huge victories in allowing for the reporting of things like FISA requests. It's great that Apple has followed Google's lead and also publishes a transparency report, but their own report also clearly shows that they DO comply with government requests: https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/us.html And both Google & Apple have comparable percentages of requests honored per their own reports. Regardless an "assume complied" is an illogical position to take here. Assume a company did work that they didn't have to for one-off requests? That's a safe thing to assume they didn't do. Assume they did nothing, because that's way easier, cheaper, and simpler for them. Which means assume they didn't help anyone, including the FBI. > large amount of effort to protect privacy (It's one of the main arguments of why IOS/OSX is so locked down). No. iOS / OSX are locked down to prevent competition. There's no privacy benefit in keeping the user from poking at their own device. Apple did a lot of work specifically to enable apps to do things like track a user's location in the background. Things that didn't used to be possible, but which Apple put in work to do. The only significant thing they did here on iOS was make it a runtime permission, which other platforms have similarly done. OSX continues to have no real restrictions or enforcement for apps, except to try and prevent you from installing them outside of the app store. They put more effort into bragging about their privacy than they did in actually improving privacy. Advertising turns out to be extremely effective, as Apple frequently proves.
Spooky23 8y ago

max76 8y ago

It's simple. Apple doesn't use location data in their products. Google does. Apple specifically avoids these types of products. Google's main revenue stream depends on them.

kodablah 8y ago
This is about partnering with carriers that do bad things. One company that partnered with these carriers said "stop that" (granted not with enough eagerness/transparency for me). Another that partners with carriers remains mum. > Apple specifically avoids these types of products. No, Apple specifically partners with the companies selling this stuff and don't care at all. They could easily issue a statement saying they disagree with those they shake hands and share money with, but they won't. Google will though.

wtmt 8y ago

That's pretty easy to conclude based on the business models of said companies. Why would anyone want to reach a different conclusion, especially when Google has shown apathy towards location data collection on Android, bypassing Safari's cookie handling to track users, etc.? The writing on the wall is crystal clear.

piyush_soni 8y ago
Apple was caught storing iphone users' location history in plain text! What are we talking here?
- pdimitar 8y ago
  Source?
  - piyush_soni 8y ago
    Here : The location data was stored unencrypted on the device and most users didn't even know about it ! - http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/04/apple-location-tracking.html http://radar.oreilly.com/2011/04/apple-location-tracking.htm...
    - wtmt 8y ago
      That’s from 2011. If you compare issues introduced, remedies and preventive actions by the said conpanies since that time, you’d still find Apple leagues ahead of Google or Facebook (and Is say that Facebook isn’t even in the running).
      - piyush_soni 8y ago
        Can you list how many such issues were introduced by Google and where they lacked in the preventive actions?