5 ms·

Citation needed. Google makes it pretty clear that they do not sell any personal information to advertisers: https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https:

Citation needed. Google makes it pretty clear that they do not sell any personal information to advertisers: https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/

rightbyte 8y ago
But they do. They let them target ads based on your location. It's the same thing as selling personal data. If someone clicks a location targeted ad the advertiser know the persons location. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/1722043?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/1722043?hl=en "Google Ads location targeting allows your ads to appear in the geographic locations that you choose: countries, areas within a country, a radius around a location, or location groups, which can include places of interest, your business locations, or tiered demographics. Location targeting helps you focus your advertising on the areas where you'll find the right customers, and restrict it in areas where you won't. This specific type of targeting could help increase your return on investment (ROI) as a result." In a sense Google is spyware and adware at the same time. It shame these two terms are used less now then they used too, since they lost their meaning when so many apps and your Android phone itself is one.
- wlesieutre 8y ago
  Letting someone target you with their ad based on your location is not the same thing as from telling them where you are
  - ams6110 8y ago
    Or telling them who you are. Google knows, but AFAIK they don't pass that along to the advertiser.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      And that's important. I'd rather just Google (which isn't great) have that information than literally anyone willing to pay $0.50 for it (which is infinitely worse).
- Spooky23 8y ago
  How do I use Google Ads to send a tow truck driver to repossess a car when the debtor gets home? That’s what the phone carrier is doing. They monetize location, but from my perspective they do so in a way that’s more respectful of the person, because it’s in their interest to do so. The carriers just sell data points and lack the ability or desire to add value to them.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
  You're not going to be able to uniquely target someone in a radius, since the minimum is 1km (and I guess Google would artificially widen the radius to prevent uniquely identifying people in sparsely populated areas). You've also got to entice them to click, and that's notoriously difficult.I mean it might work occasionally but it's never going to be the shortest path to surveiling an individual. I would guess that ~nobody is successfully using ads to determine individual people's locations. https://www.en.advertisercommunity.com/t5/Advanced-Features/Minimum-for-Geo-Targeting-by-radius/td-p/336706 https://www.en.advertisercommunity.com/t5/Advanced-Features/... Disclosure: I work at big G, not on ads.
  - rightbyte 8y ago
    Yes. I'm not saying it is as bad as selling the information verbatim to banksters to collect someone's debt. However, it's still selling personal information to adbuyers. And, I don't think you can say "nobody is successfully using ads to determine ad clickers general location with a X mile radius". This surveillance thing is getting out of hand and Google is annoyed that shady corporations tries to get ground which might bring new laws.
    - asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
      > And, I don't think you can say "nobody is successfully using ads to determine ad clickers general location with a X mile radius". Of course. And I'm sure that you can find some people who would get riled up that they incremented a counter in a location-oriented semi-anonymous bucket of clicks. But I think most people are substantially less riled up about that than they would be if Google were actually disclosing their individual locations directly to buyers. It seems like a lot of the anti-Google folks on here equivocate between these two, and I speculate it's because consciously or subconsciously they realize the latter narrative is much more emotionally compelling to a much broader segment of the population. To me, that's deceptive rhetoric.
- skybrian 8y ago
  There is location leakage but it's clearly not the same because: - they don't get your location if you don't click on the ad. Since people don't click on ads very often, only rarely does an advertisers get a person's location, and without a name attached. - Mobile phone companies were letting people query a user's location based on their real name. How would you do that with advertising? We need to move beyond one-bit thinking. Location-revealing services aren't all the same.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Website owners already have your general location based on IP - they're not getting 'leaked' any information from location-based ad targeting that isn't already available to them when you visit the site.
    - rightbyte 8y ago
      Geo ip doesn't have that accuracy, right? Google use GPS. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453995?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453995?hl=en "Device location: Depending on a user's location settings, we may be able to use a precise location for advertising, based on one of these sources of location data: GPS: Accuracy varies depending on GPS signal and connection. Wi-Fi: Accuracy should be similar to the access range of a typical Wi-Fi router. Bluetooth: If Bluetooth and/or Bluetooth scanning are enabled on a device, a publicly broadcast Bluetooth signal can provide an accurate indication of location Google's cell ID (cell tower) location database: Used in the absence of Wi-Fi or GPS. Accuracy is dependent on how many cell towers are located within an area and available data, and some devices don't support cell ID location."
      - bduerst 8y ago
        Google doesn't share device GPS. Ad location targeting is at the country, state, and city level, or in increments as small as 3 sq. km. Geo IP data is accurate ~85% at the city level and ~99% at the state level, meaning they're approximately the same.
- Symmetry 8y ago
  A bill board also lets advertisers target me by location.
JumpCrisscross 8y ago
> Google makes it pretty clear that they do not sell any personal information to advertisers Facebook’s used that like, too.
- yaacov 8y ago
  Facebook also doesn't sell personal information to advertisers. Both Facebook and Google let advertisers target ads based on location and other personal info, which is not the same thing as actually providing that information to third parties.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
    I suspect JumpCrisscross is referring to the data leak scandals via the API that have been in the news in the last year. Of course, this was also not Facebook selling information. Rather, it was Facebook allowing users to share information about their friends automatically and without the friends' consent via the API. Not great, but not selling user information either.
specialp 8y ago
Yes which is also in their interest because once personal information is sold someone else can use it without going through Google. And they benefit by having more personal information than anyone else. Instead they sell access to advertising on very personal information to you via them as a proxy. I don't see that being that much better and it is almost impossible to avoid. Which is why Google is worried if the government starts cracking down further on this it will hit them too. I don't want Google selling any information about my location or carriers as well directly or indirectly
taeric 8y ago
The catch here, in many ways, is Google owns the advertiser marketplace. Literally, if you want to sell ads on common android settings based on a user's location, you have to do it with Google's data. So, in many ways they don't sell a person's data to advertisers, per se. However, they do control access to people located in a given area. Not sure there is much of a meaningful difference, for most people.

Citation needed. Google makes it pretty clear that they do not sell any personal information to advertisers: https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/ https://safety.google/privacy/ads-and-data/

rightbyte 8y ago

But they do. They let them target ads based on your location. It's the same thing as selling personal data. If someone clicks a location targeted ad the advertiser know the persons location. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/1722043?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/1722043?hl=en "Google Ads location targeting allows your ads to appear in the geographic locations that you choose: countries, areas within a country, a radius around a location, or location groups, which can include places of interest, your business locations, or tiered demographics. Location targeting helps you focus your advertising on the areas where you'll find the right customers, and restrict it in areas where you won't. This specific type of targeting could help increase your return on investment (ROI) as a result." In a sense Google is spyware and adware at the same time. It shame these two terms are used less now then they used too, since they lost their meaning when so many apps and your Android phone itself is one.

wlesieutre 8y ago
Letting someone target you with their ad based on your location is not the same thing as from telling them where you are
- ams6110 8y ago
  Or telling them who you are. Google knows, but AFAIK they don't pass that along to the advertiser.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    And that's important. I'd rather just Google (which isn't great) have that information than literally anyone willing to pay $0.50 for it (which is infinitely worse).
Spooky23 8y ago
How do I use Google Ads to send a tow truck driver to repossess a car when the debtor gets home? That’s what the phone carrier is doing. They monetize location, but from my perspective they do so in a way that’s more respectful of the person, because it’s in their interest to do so. The carriers just sell data points and lack the ability or desire to add value to them.
asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
You're not going to be able to uniquely target someone in a radius, since the minimum is 1km (and I guess Google would artificially widen the radius to prevent uniquely identifying people in sparsely populated areas). You've also got to entice them to click, and that's notoriously difficult.I mean it might work occasionally but it's never going to be the shortest path to surveiling an individual. I would guess that ~nobody is successfully using ads to determine individual people's locations. https://www.en.advertisercommunity.com/t5/Advanced-Features/Minimum-for-Geo-Targeting-by-radius/td-p/336706 https://www.en.advertisercommunity.com/t5/Advanced-Features/... Disclosure: I work at big G, not on ads.
- rightbyte 8y ago
  Yes. I'm not saying it is as bad as selling the information verbatim to banksters to collect someone's debt. However, it's still selling personal information to adbuyers. And, I don't think you can say "nobody is successfully using ads to determine ad clickers general location with a X mile radius". This surveillance thing is getting out of hand and Google is annoyed that shady corporations tries to get ground which might bring new laws.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
    > And, I don't think you can say "nobody is successfully using ads to determine ad clickers general location with a X mile radius". Of course. And I'm sure that you can find some people who would get riled up that they incremented a counter in a location-oriented semi-anonymous bucket of clicks. But I think most people are substantially less riled up about that than they would be if Google were actually disclosing their individual locations directly to buyers. It seems like a lot of the anti-Google folks on here equivocate between these two, and I speculate it's because consciously or subconsciously they realize the latter narrative is much more emotionally compelling to a much broader segment of the population. To me, that's deceptive rhetoric.
skybrian 8y ago
There is location leakage but it's clearly not the same because: - they don't get your location if you don't click on the ad. Since people don't click on ads very often, only rarely does an advertisers get a person's location, and without a name attached. - Mobile phone companies were letting people query a user's location based on their real name. How would you do that with advertising? We need to move beyond one-bit thinking. Location-revealing services aren't all the same.
- bduerst 8y ago
  Website owners already have your general location based on IP - they're not getting 'leaked' any information from location-based ad targeting that isn't already available to them when you visit the site.
  - rightbyte 8y ago
    Geo ip doesn't have that accuracy, right? Google use GPS. https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453995?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/2453995?hl=en "Device location: Depending on a user's location settings, we may be able to use a precise location for advertising, based on one of these sources of location data: GPS: Accuracy varies depending on GPS signal and connection. Wi-Fi: Accuracy should be similar to the access range of a typical Wi-Fi router. Bluetooth: If Bluetooth and/or Bluetooth scanning are enabled on a device, a publicly broadcast Bluetooth signal can provide an accurate indication of location Google's cell ID (cell tower) location database: Used in the absence of Wi-Fi or GPS. Accuracy is dependent on how many cell towers are located within an area and available data, and some devices don't support cell ID location."
    - bduerst 8y ago
      Google doesn't share device GPS. Ad location targeting is at the country, state, and city level, or in increments as small as 3 sq. km. Geo IP data is accurate ~85% at the city level and ~99% at the state level, meaning they're approximately the same.
Symmetry 8y ago
A bill board also lets advertisers target me by location.

JumpCrisscross 8y ago

> Google makes it pretty clear that they do not sell any personal information to advertisers Facebook’s used that like, too.

yaacov 8y ago
Facebook also doesn't sell personal information to advertisers. Both Facebook and Google let advertisers target ads based on location and other personal info, which is not the same thing as actually providing that information to third parties.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
  I suspect JumpCrisscross is referring to the data leak scandals via the API that have been in the news in the last year. Of course, this was also not Facebook selling information. Rather, it was Facebook allowing users to share information about their friends automatically and without the friends' consent via the API. Not great, but not selling user information either.

specialp 8y ago

Yes which is also in their interest because once personal information is sold someone else can use it without going through Google. And they benefit by having more personal information than anyone else. Instead they sell access to advertising on very personal information to you via them as a proxy. I don't see that being that much better and it is almost impossible to avoid. Which is why Google is worried if the government starts cracking down further on this it will hit them too. I don't want Google selling any information about my location or carriers as well directly or indirectly

taeric 8y ago

The catch here, in many ways, is Google owns the advertiser marketplace. Literally, if you want to sell ads on common android settings based on a user's location, you have to do it with Google's data. So, in many ways they don't sell a person's data to advertisers, per se. However, they do control access to people located in a given area. Not sure there is much of a meaningful difference, for most people.