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I agree with your statement, but only if you consider that employees have a significant downside of working at a startup that goes under. Usually they are able

by IMTDb 8y ago

I agree with your statement, but only if you consider that employees have a significant downside of working at a startup that goes under. Usually they are able to jump ship sooner than the founder and don't loose any personal investment in the process they get more responsibilities and more independence which in turn can get them to higher salaries faster. Employees at startup usually get paid a bit less than "market rate" but enjoy a work environment they consider to be more exciting / enriching / challenging. There are people that dislike the startup environment, or that don't think it's worth the pay cut compared to GAFAN or other BigCo - and that's OK - but for many it's not as bad as you frame it.

eis 8y ago
I agree with yours as well. But to add to that: there are VC startups that are fun and exciting to work at and there are ones that are horrible. And the same goes for big companies btw. Overall though, the chance of finding more freedom and excitement is with small VC startups, sure. The employees that can jump ship quickly are the good performers that also live somewhere with ample opportunity. Those also are rarer than the average Joe Dev. I'm not saying it's always a really bad dicision to join a VC funded startup. But in the majority of cases, people would probably be better off not to - at least financially. Of course (and luckily) there are more factors than that.
- collyw 8y ago
  > also live somewhere with ample opportunity. Isn't that where the vast majority of startups are based though?
mikepurvis 8y ago
I would agree with all of this. I'm a first employee and I have had a huge amount of influence, responsibility, and flexibility over the years— I could easily walk to multiple other opportunities for 1.5-2x salary at this point, and having the option to do that is actually worth more to me than the cash gained from actually doing it. The career growth that has made this possible wouldn't have happened working at BigCo. As far as I can tell, the biggest issue with most early employees is not being able to exercise your stock options— the ones that vest first you can't afford, and by the time the later ones vest, the tax bill would be too great. So if you want to leave before an exit, you're either walking from your options, bank-financing it, cutting some kind of side deal with a VC to finance it, or working out a deal with the board to buy you out over time.
- woolvalley 8y ago
  As some counter ancedata, I worked at a relatively successful startup for several years and I ended up as a sr eng in big co anyway after the experience. Startup options ended up being effectively zero. I should of hopped to big co sooner instead, I would of been significantly ahead of my life's savings goals if I did, and possibly would of bought my house at a far cheaper price because I had the money to pay for the down payment.
  - mikepurvis 8y ago
    Yeah, for sure. I'm in the fortunate position of having picked (and contributed to, of course) what I believe is a winner. Part of this strategy has to be a willingness to constantly reevaluate the leadership team, progress, and strategy of the organization, and get out fast if it's no longer looking good. I can definitely picture that there'd be a high vulnerability to sunk-cost thinking.
Retric 8y ago
Employees only make close to market rate if you ignore hours worked. The reality is it’s often a huge sacrifice with minimal upsides.

by IMTDb 8y ago

eis 8y ago

I agree with yours as well. But to add to that: there are VC startups that are fun and exciting to work at and there are ones that are horrible. And the same goes for big companies btw. Overall though, the chance of finding more freedom and excitement is with small VC startups, sure. The employees that can jump ship quickly are the good performers that also live somewhere with ample opportunity. Those also are rarer than the average Joe Dev. I'm not saying it's always a really bad dicision to join a VC funded startup. But in the majority of cases, people would probably be better off not to - at least financially. Of course (and luckily) there are more factors than that.

collyw 8y ago
> also live somewhere with ample opportunity. Isn't that where the vast majority of startups are based though?

mikepurvis 8y ago

I would agree with all of this. I'm a first employee and I have had a huge amount of influence, responsibility, and flexibility over the years— I could easily walk to multiple other opportunities for 1.5-2x salary at this point, and having the option to do that is actually worth more to me than the cash gained from actually doing it. The career growth that has made this possible wouldn't have happened working at BigCo. As far as I can tell, the biggest issue with most early employees is not being able to exercise your stock options— the ones that vest first you can't afford, and by the time the later ones vest, the tax bill would be too great. So if you want to leave before an exit, you're either walking from your options, bank-financing it, cutting some kind of side deal with a VC to finance it, or working out a deal with the board to buy you out over time.

woolvalley 8y ago
As some counter ancedata, I worked at a relatively successful startup for several years and I ended up as a sr eng in big co anyway after the experience. Startup options ended up being effectively zero. I should of hopped to big co sooner instead, I would of been significantly ahead of my life's savings goals if I did, and possibly would of bought my house at a far cheaper price because I had the money to pay for the down payment.
- mikepurvis 8y ago
  Yeah, for sure. I'm in the fortunate position of having picked (and contributed to, of course) what I believe is a winner. Part of this strategy has to be a willingness to constantly reevaluate the leadership team, progress, and strategy of the organization, and get out fast if it's no longer looking good. I can definitely picture that there'd be a high vulnerability to sunk-cost thinking.

Retric 8y ago

Employees only make close to market rate if you ignore hours worked. The reality is it’s often a huge sacrifice with minimal upsides.