6 ms·

What do you see as not functioning in the EU?

DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
have you ever been to rural Germany, Italy, France or heard of gilets jaunes? Any idea why they might exist? I live in a very poor EU country (out of choice) and most young people fuck off to Germany or France because their home states have no jobs for them. They don't come back either which causes a massive brain drain on these places. Ask the so called middle class in Croatia, Slovakia, Italy what they think of the EU and how well it works for them. Avg salary in these places is 500 to 1000 EUR. And if you visit supermarkets all they have is shit. Literally everything like fresh veg tastes like feet because the good stuff that is locally produced gets exported to the rich places. Companies have 2 production lines making low-grade products (despite being the same brand) for these markets. I'm not an arm-chair bureaucrat who forms his opinion on Google. I actually live in these placed because despite all this shit and poverty the people are actually warm. One more example: thousands of people wiping arses in nursery homes in Germany are working through shady polish, slovenian, etc outsourcing companies where they're stripped of all benefits that a German would enjoy. They work for 500 to 1000 / month (in a high cost country) because their home country has no jobs for them. Then they're being exploited by the rich EU countries. Again I lived in Germany, ran 2 companies there, lived in France (operated 3 businesses), now I live in Eastern EU. As much as I want the EU to succeed I can't be blind to the hypocrisy that I see every day on the streets in my own surrounding.
- Spooky23 8y ago
  That’s happening everywhere. One of the reasons you have the wacky politics that you have now in the US is that the people left in flyover country aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed. Russia is the most extreme example of the phenomenon.
- eecc 8y ago
  thank you for posting this
  - spiderfarmer 8y ago
    Shame it's not very informative.
- Lucadg 8y ago
  Food in Italy is of extremely good quality and variety. I live in Bulgaria and fruits and vegetables are exceptional and extremely cheap. If you refer to supermarket food I may agree.
  - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
    indeed Italy (and France) has some o the best food I ever bought. Germany can't compare even with what's available in a Le'clerc or Carrefour in France. yes I was mainly talking about supermarkets. In my current home I only buy stuff at the wet-market - e.g. directly from farmers because the chains just deliver crap. Even the higher prized items in supermarkets (which cost the same as Germany despite the salary differences) are terrible quality - literally nobody in Italy or France would eat those veg.
    - Lucadg 8y ago
      Exactly. The more corporations are involved the worst the food gets.
    - ben_w 8y ago
      I wasn’t that impressed with French supermarkets, including Carrefour. Sure, Germany is the home of Lidl, Aldi, and Netto, but Rewe, Edeka, Kaufland, and Biomarkt are all at least as good as what I saw in France. On the other hand, in the UK, Tesco, Waitrose, and Sainsbury’s are all at least as good as their German equivalents; and (beyond the EU) even the worst EU supermarket was better than almost every supermarket I saw in the USA.
      - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
        shopping at carrefour Antibes with over 100 cashiers you could buy wines from €15 - €1500 in the same shop. Not just wines but fresh fish section that is bigger than some Kaufstadt shops in Germany themselves. The level of choice there was phenomenal (closer to US than anywhere else in Europe). Fresh whipped cream from the Normandie that costs €30,-- for 500ml (and you could taste it) ... exotic meats (goat, horse, pigeon, rabbit, fresh fois-gras ...). At the same time Germany had scandals with their "Klebefleisch" essentially meat that consists of lips+arseholes glued together to make it look like genuine ham ... I never paid attention to the price of groceries when shopping in Germany because growing up poor I always had the attitude not to be stingy with food and only buy what appealed the most. Coming to France I had to pay attention and actually look at the label because I might pick stuff that I simply couldn't afford. Doing this in Germany I might end up paying for regular groceries 250,-- (avg feeding a family), while in France I might pay 800 or more if I didn't pay attention. The first few times had to actually return once the cashier presented my bill.
- random_kris 8y ago
  two line stuff is straight out lie?! I live in a small european country (same level as croatia, slovakia etc....) stuff in markets is good quality. local stuff stays here and gets sold to locals.
- jlangenauer 8y ago
  Not all of this is the EU - which is not exactly some super-state that controls every aspect of life on the continent. Almost all of these things are in the jurisdiction of the member states themselves, and the EU has little power to control them. If the EU didn't exist, Germany would still be staffing its nursing homes with cheap(er) foreign labour, just done under a visa rather than EU freedom of movement. If the EU didn't exist, companies would still produce high-quality products for rich markets, and low-quality products for poor markets. (If you want a fascinating example of this, read this Twitter thread about the manufacture of sanitary pads in Africa - https://twitter.com/aprzhu/status/1083278476310913024 https://twitter.com/aprzhu/status/1083278476310913024) If the EU, ceased to exist, would eastern European supermarkets no longer be filled with "shit", or would local producers continue to export their good produce where they can get the most money for it? There is a tendency to avoid criticism of the EU and congratulate it for things it does not do, but it is also a mistake to assign all the ills of Europe to it, when blame for them is much more accurately laid on national governments.
  - piotr1212 8y ago
    > If the EU didn't exist, Germany would still be staffing its nursing homes with cheap(er) foreign labour, just done under a visa rather than EU freedom of movement. Or worse: the care would be become too expensive and peoples arses wouldn't be wiped at all..
    - ben_w 8y ago
      Datapoint: UK family have been looking at such services for a relative with Alzheimer’s. ~£1,000/week, compared to the ~£60/week the government pays in benefits to those looking after relatives.
- Jommi 8y ago
  This is such an anecdotal experience that I don't even know why you posted it. With this kind of harsh judgement I would expect at least some sources.
  - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
    google has you covered, but here some starters: Germany tackles benefit abuse as migration soars from eastern EU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-immigration/germany-tackles-benefit-abuse-as-migration-soars-from-eastern-eu-idUSBREA2P1BP20140326 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-immigration/germa... Germany benefits from the exploitation of Eastern European workers – a shocking documentary of BR television channel https://trans.info/en/germany-benefits-from-the-exploitation-of-eastern-european-workers-a-shocking-documentary-of-br-television-channel-59b67d43bc04fa16668b469d-65681 https://trans.info/en/germany-benefits-from-the-exploitation... Europe's 'food apartheid': are brands in the east lower quality than in the west? https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/europes-food-apartheid-are-brands-in-the-east-lower-quality-than-in-the-west https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/europes-f... Food brands 'cheat' eastern European shoppers with inferior products https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/food-brands-accused-of-selling-inferior-versions-in-eastern-europe https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/food-bran...
- jeroenhd 8y ago
  That's not really the EU failing, that's just poor countries being poor. A smart businessman will export his goods for the highest price to make more money if he can. That will lead to shittier products sold in poor countries, but it also brings food to the table of the farmers. It's not as if Poland and Hungary would have been booming economic superpowers if it hadn't been for the EU. The people fleeing their country because of the lack of jobs won't suddenly find new jobs if they can't leave. The exploitation of cheap, foreign labour is an issue though and it's not just hurting the people being exploited; the natives of the country the exploitation takes place in will see their wages drop if some shady outsourcing company can have the same work done for half the price. Those old people don't want their assets wiped by someone who can barely understand their language either but they need to put up with it because of cost-saving measures that has degraded the level of care. This is something the EU can change, but the many labourers who'd be out of a job if the EU added more restrictions to foreign travel wouldn't agree with changing the policy to make them unemployed. The double production line issue would just come back in a different fashion if quality goods weren't exported; there'd be no money to be made selling most of the goods, so they either become a luxury product or only the cheap, garbage production line remains. Despite all the known problems, countries like Albania, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia are all applying for (or already negotiating) a position within the EU. If they would really be better off without the "dysfunctional" EU, they'd form their own bloc or remain independent. Even for poor countries, the EU brings benefits.
  - tremon 8y ago
    The exploitation of cheap, foreign labour Case in point, the EU is already working to prevent/mitigate this [1]: per 2021, local business must pay adequate local wages even to foreign workers. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/eu-moves-toward-wage-equality-for-foreign-workers/a-42814676 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-moves-toward-wage-equality-for-fore...
  - thesaint 8y ago
    No. The EU is a scam. The tax payer is being used to develop markets that will be exploited for a small minorities gain and the profits siphoned away offshore. Socialism is bullshit. The eastern countries are presently queuing up to get their payoffs. Again the politicians are getting their silver pennies and selling the people out. Will it work? As soon the rates of interest kickin and people are squeezed they will head back to the Russians - with their new infrastructure etc.. The EU is a very, very bad joke..
- akie 8y ago
  - I lived in Germany - lived in France - now I live in Eastern EU Seems like you're getting plenty of benefits out of the EU. Most of the issues you mention, while acknowledging that they're real, are not caused by the EU.
  - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
    free movement should be a human right. I lived a decade in Asia before returning to EU. I'd also move to different countries even if it would require a visa. That has never stopped me. I hope to go to India next year. Has little to do with the EU "giving me the benefit". I alone make that possible not some political entity.
    - ben_w 8y ago
      > free movement should be a human right. Agreed > I alone make that possible not some political entity. Except for the armed border guards, the national rules on who can work in a nation, the police who can deport you if you don’t obey the rules, sure.
      - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
        yeah. I was ignorantly thinking of those that follow the law, are highly skilled and are welcomed into the country but didn't consider the folk who immigrate for economic reasons or refugees etc. sadly many will be prevented by a barrier if they have "the wrong type" of passport
        ben_w 8y ago
        > highly skilled and are welcomed into the country but didn't consider the folk who immigrate for economic reasons Aren’t those often the same people?
    - tremon 8y ago
      free movement should be a human right Yet it never is when crossing nations' borders, except within the EU. How can you then say that the EU is not functioning?
- pennaMan 8y ago
  The EU maybe is functional maybe not, but one thing is for sure: The Kremlin anti-western propaganda machine is obviously highly functional. More and more people are blaming their countries poverty on the EU while being oblivious to the actual scope of the EU jurisdiction, to the detriment of both their home country and the EU. Without the EU the poor countries would be way, way worse off.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Yeah, those silly people, blaming an EU that enforces a monetary policy for the benefit of Germany, imposes pro-corporate and anti-labour laws and agreements (Maastricht, Lisbon treaty, etc), and is ruled by backroom deals and "might is right", for their countries ills... Obviously they were victims of the "Kremlin anti-western propaganda"...
  - thesaint 8y ago
    Like Greece?
    - ben_w 8y ago
      Yes, like Greece, who the EU helped by getting their creditors to back off and give up some of their claims.
      - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
        after 2008 the EU had a gun to their had and were made to sign loans that they could never ever repay. they were lent that money because private citizens mostly owned their homes. Yanis Varoufakis gives good insight into what happened. e.g. "The Euro Has Never Been More Problematic" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSg9X3q2gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSg9X3q2gc Germany should not and can not be made responsible for bailing these countries out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtrrN2uWUl8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtrrN2uWUl8
        ben_w 8y ago
- piotr1212 8y ago
  How is any of that related to a non-functioning EU?
- gbuk2013 8y ago
  > I live in a very poor EU country (out of choice) and most young people fuck off to Germany or France because their home states have no jobs for them. They don't come back either which causes a massive brain drain on these places. > because the good stuff that is locally produced gets exported to the rich places The cynic in me would say this is an example of the EU functioning very well, for it's intended purpose of funnelling resources to those of the equal who are more equal than others? ;)
- ploika 8y ago
  With respect, the examples you gave seem like more of a problem with employment law and governance in individual countries than with the EU as an institution. The gilet jaunes were/are angry about a carbon tax and lack of wealth taxes. Not Brussels or brain drain. The EU's Common Agricultural Policy, though not perfect, keeps huge swathes of rural Europe afloat. Its regional development funds builds infrastructure in areas that can't afford it. You can't really blame the EU for bland vegetables either. That's just silly. The French aren't exactly appropriating Croatian tomatoes by force. It just means that (thanks to the EU) producers can get a higher price for their goods by exporting tariff-free to another country, so they do. Why wouldn't they?
- watwut 8y ago
  Most of it does not sound like issue with EU, but issue with specific countries. Polish people working through shady Polish companies in Germany is not EU issue, it is mostly Polish issue and partially German issue.
- ben_w 8y ago
  All of your examples strongly pattern-match to my sister-in-law. From a poor nation, moved to a rich one, brain drain, local economy a mess. Trouble with your argument is she’s from the Philippines, which isn’t in the EU. It’s not even a problem with globalisation, the usual next scapegoat, but a problem with unequal gains being combined with literally exponential growth. The EU does at least try to counteract that by getting all nations to invest 1% GDP in EU projects including projects designed to lift the poorest EU regions out of relative poverty.
- naiveai 8y ago
  Brain drain is a thing that exists, but I argue it's not really a problem. I'm not going to address the other aspects of your comment for now at least. I live in India, where complaints of brain drain are the main topic of discussion among adults here, and the main thing politicians love to blame when looking for excuses. There are no feasible ways to ""solve"" brain drain without either a) taking away people's choices - North Korea has no brain drain, or b) Making your country's incentives better so the problem becomes irrelevant. If you want b, then the term "brain drain" is bad because it is almost always seen as an attack on the choice of people moving out. Use a different, more specific, and more understandable term.

have you ever been to rural Germany, Italy, France or heard of gilets jaunes? Any idea why they might exist? I live in a very poor EU country (out of choice) and most young people fuck off to Germany or France because their home states have no jobs for them. They don't come back either which causes a massive brain drain on these places. Ask the so called middle class in Croatia, Slovakia, Italy what they think of the EU and how well it works for them. Avg salary in these places is 500 to 1000 EUR. And if you visit supermarkets all they have is shit. Literally everything like fresh veg tastes like feet because the good stuff that is locally produced gets exported to the rich places. Companies have 2 production lines making low-grade products (despite being the same brand) for these markets. I'm not an arm-chair bureaucrat who forms his opinion on Google. I actually live in these placed because despite all this shit and poverty the people are actually warm. One more example: thousands of people wiping arses in nursery homes in Germany are working through shady polish, slovenian, etc outsourcing companies where they're stripped of all benefits that a German would enjoy. They work for 500 to 1000 / month (in a high cost country) because their home country has no jobs for them. Then they're being exploited by the rich EU countries. Again I lived in Germany, ran 2 companies there, lived in France (operated 3 businesses), now I live in Eastern EU. As much as I want the EU to succeed I can't be blind to the hypocrisy that I see every day on the streets in my own surrounding.

Spooky23 8y ago
That’s happening everywhere. One of the reasons you have the wacky politics that you have now in the US is that the people left in flyover country aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed. Russia is the most extreme example of the phenomenon.
eecc 8y ago
thank you for posting this
- spiderfarmer 8y ago
  Shame it's not very informative.
Lucadg 8y ago
Food in Italy is of extremely good quality and variety. I live in Bulgaria and fruits and vegetables are exceptional and extremely cheap. If you refer to supermarket food I may agree.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  indeed Italy (and France) has some o the best food I ever bought. Germany can't compare even with what's available in a Le'clerc or Carrefour in France. yes I was mainly talking about supermarkets. In my current home I only buy stuff at the wet-market - e.g. directly from farmers because the chains just deliver crap. Even the higher prized items in supermarkets (which cost the same as Germany despite the salary differences) are terrible quality - literally nobody in Italy or France would eat those veg.
  - Lucadg 8y ago
    Exactly. The more corporations are involved the worst the food gets.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    I wasn’t that impressed with French supermarkets, including Carrefour. Sure, Germany is the home of Lidl, Aldi, and Netto, but Rewe, Edeka, Kaufland, and Biomarkt are all at least as good as what I saw in France. On the other hand, in the UK, Tesco, Waitrose, and Sainsbury’s are all at least as good as their German equivalents; and (beyond the EU) even the worst EU supermarket was better than almost every supermarket I saw in the USA.
    - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
      shopping at carrefour Antibes with over 100 cashiers you could buy wines from €15 - €1500 in the same shop. Not just wines but fresh fish section that is bigger than some Kaufstadt shops in Germany themselves. The level of choice there was phenomenal (closer to US than anywhere else in Europe). Fresh whipped cream from the Normandie that costs €30,-- for 500ml (and you could taste it) ... exotic meats (goat, horse, pigeon, rabbit, fresh fois-gras ...). At the same time Germany had scandals with their "Klebefleisch" essentially meat that consists of lips+arseholes glued together to make it look like genuine ham ... I never paid attention to the price of groceries when shopping in Germany because growing up poor I always had the attitude not to be stingy with food and only buy what appealed the most. Coming to France I had to pay attention and actually look at the label because I might pick stuff that I simply couldn't afford. Doing this in Germany I might end up paying for regular groceries 250,-- (avg feeding a family), while in France I might pay 800 or more if I didn't pay attention. The first few times had to actually return once the cashier presented my bill.
random_kris 8y ago
two line stuff is straight out lie?! I live in a small european country (same level as croatia, slovakia etc....) stuff in markets is good quality. local stuff stays here and gets sold to locals.
jlangenauer 8y ago
Not all of this is the EU - which is not exactly some super-state that controls every aspect of life on the continent. Almost all of these things are in the jurisdiction of the member states themselves, and the EU has little power to control them. If the EU didn't exist, Germany would still be staffing its nursing homes with cheap(er) foreign labour, just done under a visa rather than EU freedom of movement. If the EU didn't exist, companies would still produce high-quality products for rich markets, and low-quality products for poor markets. (If you want a fascinating example of this, read this Twitter thread about the manufacture of sanitary pads in Africa - https://twitter.com/aprzhu/status/1083278476310913024 https://twitter.com/aprzhu/status/1083278476310913024) If the EU, ceased to exist, would eastern European supermarkets no longer be filled with "shit", or would local producers continue to export their good produce where they can get the most money for it? There is a tendency to avoid criticism of the EU and congratulate it for things it does not do, but it is also a mistake to assign all the ills of Europe to it, when blame for them is much more accurately laid on national governments.
- piotr1212 8y ago
  > If the EU didn't exist, Germany would still be staffing its nursing homes with cheap(er) foreign labour, just done under a visa rather than EU freedom of movement. Or worse: the care would be become too expensive and peoples arses wouldn't be wiped at all..
  - ben_w 8y ago
    Datapoint: UK family have been looking at such services for a relative with Alzheimer’s. ~£1,000/week, compared to the ~£60/week the government pays in benefits to those looking after relatives.
Jommi 8y ago
This is such an anecdotal experience that I don't even know why you posted it. With this kind of harsh judgement I would expect at least some sources.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  google has you covered, but here some starters: Germany tackles benefit abuse as migration soars from eastern EU https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-immigration/germany-tackles-benefit-abuse-as-migration-soars-from-eastern-eu-idUSBREA2P1BP20140326 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-immigration/germa... Germany benefits from the exploitation of Eastern European workers – a shocking documentary of BR television channel https://trans.info/en/germany-benefits-from-the-exploitation-of-eastern-european-workers-a-shocking-documentary-of-br-television-channel-59b67d43bc04fa16668b469d-65681 https://trans.info/en/germany-benefits-from-the-exploitation... Europe's 'food apartheid': are brands in the east lower quality than in the west? https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/europes-food-apartheid-are-brands-in-the-east-lower-quality-than-in-the-west https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/europes-f... Food brands 'cheat' eastern European shoppers with inferior products https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/food-brands-accused-of-selling-inferior-versions-in-eastern-europe https://www.theguardian.com/inequality/2017/sep/15/food-bran...
jeroenhd 8y ago
That's not really the EU failing, that's just poor countries being poor. A smart businessman will export his goods for the highest price to make more money if he can. That will lead to shittier products sold in poor countries, but it also brings food to the table of the farmers. It's not as if Poland and Hungary would have been booming economic superpowers if it hadn't been for the EU. The people fleeing their country because of the lack of jobs won't suddenly find new jobs if they can't leave. The exploitation of cheap, foreign labour is an issue though and it's not just hurting the people being exploited; the natives of the country the exploitation takes place in will see their wages drop if some shady outsourcing company can have the same work done for half the price. Those old people don't want their assets wiped by someone who can barely understand their language either but they need to put up with it because of cost-saving measures that has degraded the level of care. This is something the EU can change, but the many labourers who'd be out of a job if the EU added more restrictions to foreign travel wouldn't agree with changing the policy to make them unemployed. The double production line issue would just come back in a different fashion if quality goods weren't exported; there'd be no money to be made selling most of the goods, so they either become a luxury product or only the cheap, garbage production line remains. Despite all the known problems, countries like Albania, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Serbia are all applying for (or already negotiating) a position within the EU. If they would really be better off without the "dysfunctional" EU, they'd form their own bloc or remain independent. Even for poor countries, the EU brings benefits.
- tremon 8y ago
  The exploitation of cheap, foreign labour Case in point, the EU is already working to prevent/mitigate this [1]: per 2021, local business must pay adequate local wages even to foreign workers. [1] https://www.dw.com/en/eu-moves-toward-wage-equality-for-foreign-workers/a-42814676 https://www.dw.com/en/eu-moves-toward-wage-equality-for-fore...
- thesaint 8y ago
  No. The EU is a scam. The tax payer is being used to develop markets that will be exploited for a small minorities gain and the profits siphoned away offshore. Socialism is bullshit. The eastern countries are presently queuing up to get their payoffs. Again the politicians are getting their silver pennies and selling the people out. Will it work? As soon the rates of interest kickin and people are squeezed they will head back to the Russians - with their new infrastructure etc.. The EU is a very, very bad joke..
akie 8y ago
- I lived in Germany - lived in France - now I live in Eastern EU Seems like you're getting plenty of benefits out of the EU. Most of the issues you mention, while acknowledging that they're real, are not caused by the EU.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  free movement should be a human right. I lived a decade in Asia before returning to EU. I'd also move to different countries even if it would require a visa. That has never stopped me. I hope to go to India next year. Has little to do with the EU "giving me the benefit". I alone make that possible not some political entity.
  - ben_w 8y ago
    > free movement should be a human right. Agreed > I alone make that possible not some political entity. Except for the armed border guards, the national rules on who can work in a nation, the police who can deport you if you don’t obey the rules, sure.
    - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
      yeah. I was ignorantly thinking of those that follow the law, are highly skilled and are welcomed into the country but didn't consider the folk who immigrate for economic reasons or refugees etc. sadly many will be prevented by a barrier if they have "the wrong type" of passport
      - ben_w 8y ago
        > highly skilled and are welcomed into the country but didn't consider the folk who immigrate for economic reasons Aren’t those often the same people?
  - tremon 8y ago
    free movement should be a human right Yet it never is when crossing nations' borders, except within the EU. How can you then say that the EU is not functioning?
pennaMan 8y ago
The EU maybe is functional maybe not, but one thing is for sure: The Kremlin anti-western propaganda machine is obviously highly functional. More and more people are blaming their countries poverty on the EU while being oblivious to the actual scope of the EU jurisdiction, to the detriment of both their home country and the EU. Without the EU the poor countries would be way, way worse off.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Yeah, those silly people, blaming an EU that enforces a monetary policy for the benefit of Germany, imposes pro-corporate and anti-labour laws and agreements (Maastricht, Lisbon treaty, etc), and is ruled by backroom deals and "might is right", for their countries ills... Obviously they were victims of the "Kremlin anti-western propaganda"...
- thesaint 8y ago
  Like Greece?
  - ben_w 8y ago
    Yes, like Greece, who the EU helped by getting their creditors to back off and give up some of their claims.
    - DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
      after 2008 the EU had a gun to their had and were made to sign loans that they could never ever repay. they were lent that money because private citizens mostly owned their homes. Yanis Varoufakis gives good insight into what happened. e.g. "The Euro Has Never Been More Problematic" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSg9X3q2gc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhSg9X3q2gc Germany should not and can not be made responsible for bailing these countries out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtrrN2uWUl8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtrrN2uWUl8
      - ben_w 8y ago
piotr1212 8y ago
How is any of that related to a non-functioning EU?
gbuk2013 8y ago
> I live in a very poor EU country (out of choice) and most young people fuck off to Germany or France because their home states have no jobs for them. They don't come back either which causes a massive brain drain on these places. > because the good stuff that is locally produced gets exported to the rich places The cynic in me would say this is an example of the EU functioning very well, for it's intended purpose of funnelling resources to those of the equal who are more equal than others? ;)
ploika 8y ago
With respect, the examples you gave seem like more of a problem with employment law and governance in individual countries than with the EU as an institution. The gilet jaunes were/are angry about a carbon tax and lack of wealth taxes. Not Brussels or brain drain. The EU's Common Agricultural Policy, though not perfect, keeps huge swathes of rural Europe afloat. Its regional development funds builds infrastructure in areas that can't afford it. You can't really blame the EU for bland vegetables either. That's just silly. The French aren't exactly appropriating Croatian tomatoes by force. It just means that (thanks to the EU) producers can get a higher price for their goods by exporting tariff-free to another country, so they do. Why wouldn't they?
watwut 8y ago
Most of it does not sound like issue with EU, but issue with specific countries. Polish people working through shady Polish companies in Germany is not EU issue, it is mostly Polish issue and partially German issue.
ben_w 8y ago
All of your examples strongly pattern-match to my sister-in-law. From a poor nation, moved to a rich one, brain drain, local economy a mess. Trouble with your argument is she’s from the Philippines, which isn’t in the EU. It’s not even a problem with globalisation, the usual next scapegoat, but a problem with unequal gains being combined with literally exponential growth. The EU does at least try to counteract that by getting all nations to invest 1% GDP in EU projects including projects designed to lift the poorest EU regions out of relative poverty.
naiveai 8y ago
Brain drain is a thing that exists, but I argue it's not really a problem. I'm not going to address the other aspects of your comment for now at least. I live in India, where complaints of brain drain are the main topic of discussion among adults here, and the main thing politicians love to blame when looking for excuses. There are no feasible ways to ""solve"" brain drain without either a) taking away people's choices - North Korea has no brain drain, or b) Making your country's incentives better so the problem becomes irrelevant. If you want b, then the term "brain drain" is bad because it is almost always seen as an attack on the choice of people moving out. Use a different, more specific, and more understandable term.