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Some of these cameras are hidden: positioned so that you cannot spot them from afar (and not advertised by a sign neither). If the sole purpose would be to hel

Some of these cameras are hidden: positioned so that you cannot spot them from afar (and not advertised by a sign neither). If the sole purpose would be to help people to drive safely then you should advertise them, make them really visible aso.

megaremote 8y ago
How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to stop you speeding EVERYWHERE. Not just where speed cameras are. It is to penalise people who constantly break the law, and make the road dangerous for everyone.
- coldtea 8y ago
  How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to make money for the police department and the municipality. https://www.leg33.com/maryland-speed-camera-fraud/ https://www.leg33.com/maryland-speed-camera-fraud/ https://steemit.com/technology/@doitvoluntarily/are-traffic-cameras-rigged-against-drivers https://steemit.com/technology/@doitvoluntarily/are-traffic-... http://time.com/3505994/red-light-camera-problems-tickets/ http://time.com/3505994/red-light-camera-problems-tickets/ https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617207/Speed-cameras-safety-no-way-make-money-police-admit https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617207/Speed-cameras-safet... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410449/Undercover-probe-reveals-buckets-money-speed-cameras.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410449/Undercover-p... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/red-light-camera-controversy/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/red-light-camera-controve...
  - seszett 8y ago
    French speedcam fines don't go to the police department or the municipality, they go to the interior ministry and mostly fund infrastructure maintenance (including the speedcams themselves).
    - coldtea 8y ago
      >(including the speedcams themselves). So they fines are a feedback-style job security enabler for the people at the department responsible for the speedcams.
      - seszett 8y ago
        Or you can see them as security measures that only cost money to those who break the rules, meaning they are essentially free to law-abiding citizens.
        coldtea 8y ago
        You missed the part that the rules are BS, and the lights rigged to produce fines -- and in some cases even causing accidents rather than prevent them? There have been lots of scandals over the years and I even gave some links...
        Karunamon 8y ago
        We’ve been talking speed cameras here, not lights. Light cams and associated rigging is an entirely different problem with different implications. Meanwhile, if you keep the little needle on your speedometer under what the last sign said, you’ll be fine. Pretty damn hard to rig that.
        seszett 8y ago
        I'm not sure which lights you are talking about, and none of your links are about French speedcams.
  - sveme 8y ago
    In Germany you are not allowed to put up a speed cam just about anywhere. It needs to be an accident-prone site or one where it has been demonstrated before that it's prone to speeding.
- toolslive 8y ago
  There are places here in Belgium where everybody is officially 'speeding' (so driving more than 10km/h faster than what's allowed) and where even the police admits the speed limit was set too low. Guess where they put the hidden mobile cameras. If they were really really interested in making the roads safer for everyone, they would combine driving on the right with the right of way for people coming from the left iso coming from the right. Statistics show (you can measure this because there are countries where they drive left and have right of way from the right) that it lowers the death toll by almost 30%.
  - seszett 8y ago
    Everyone is speeding everywhere in Belgium. We also get a lot more casualties (by inhabitant, by vehicle, by kilometer, any metric you take) than France. France has about 30% less deaths than Belgium, and gives right of way to people coming from the right. The road rules are almost exactly the same between the two countries. If anything, I think it just shows that speed limits are not enforced well enough (and I think it should start with switching to a points permit) in Belgium. I also personally find them often too high, with 70 often being allowed in urban areas outside the core parts of towns.
    - toolslive 8y ago
      mind there's a significant difference between Wallonia and Flanders. (see article below, in Dutch) https://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/aantal-verkeersdoden-daalt-maar-te-traag/article-normal-972973.html https://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/aantal-verkeersdoden-daal...
      - seszett 8y ago
        That's to be expected given the large difference between the regions, but the comparison still hold if you compare the more urbanised Nord département to Flanders. Nord is on paar with Noord-Brabant however, on the other side of Flanders. IMO there is no question that Flemish roads (I don't know Wallonia much) are less safe than French roads. Eurostat shows that quite well: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/RCI/#?vis=nuts1.transport&lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/RCI/#?vis=nuts1.transpor...
adrianN 8y ago
There are very visible signs telling you how fast you can go without triggering any hidden speed cameras. They even paint them in reflective paint, so that you can see them better at night.
BhavdeepSethi 8y ago
Isn't the idea to enforce driving in speed limits all the time. Not only when you /know/ that a speed camera is present.
TomK32 8y ago
here's a great hack to avoid getting fined for speeding: Don't speed!
lb1lf 8y ago
-Here in Norway, every speed camera needs to be advertised by signs in order to let the driver know he's being monitored. Kind of defeats their purpose, as the idea is not to ensure people drive past the cam under the posted limit; it is to make sure they obey the posted limit, period. Speed cams would be most effective if they were hidden all over the place. (Or used to record average speed over some distance, which is a most effective way of ensuring people observe the speed limit!) The latter, though, will get the privacy nut in me annoyed unless the authorities flush the record of you passing immediately after verifying that you drove at or under the speed limit. Speed cameras are excellent surveillance devices, after all.

megaremote 8y ago

How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to stop you speeding EVERYWHERE. Not just where speed cameras are. It is to penalise people who constantly break the law, and make the road dangerous for everyone.

coldtea 8y ago
How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to make money for the police department and the municipality. https://www.leg33.com/maryland-speed-camera-fraud/ https://www.leg33.com/maryland-speed-camera-fraud/ https://steemit.com/technology/@doitvoluntarily/are-traffic-cameras-rigged-against-drivers https://steemit.com/technology/@doitvoluntarily/are-traffic-... http://time.com/3505994/red-light-camera-problems-tickets/ http://time.com/3505994/red-light-camera-problems-tickets/ https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617207/Speed-cameras-safety-no-way-make-money-police-admit https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617207/Speed-cameras-safet... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410449/Undercover-probe-reveals-buckets-money-speed-cameras.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-410449/Undercover-p... https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/red-light-camera-controversy/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/red-light-camera-controve...
- seszett 8y ago
  French speedcam fines don't go to the police department or the municipality, they go to the interior ministry and mostly fund infrastructure maintenance (including the speedcams themselves).
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >(including the speedcams themselves). So they fines are a feedback-style job security enabler for the people at the department responsible for the speedcams.
    - seszett 8y ago
      Or you can see them as security measures that only cost money to those who break the rules, meaning they are essentially free to law-abiding citizens.
      - coldtea 8y ago
        You missed the part that the rules are BS, and the lights rigged to produce fines -- and in some cases even causing accidents rather than prevent them? There have been lots of scandals over the years and I even gave some links...
        Karunamon 8y ago
        We’ve been talking speed cameras here, not lights. Light cams and associated rigging is an entirely different problem with different implications. Meanwhile, if you keep the little needle on your speedometer under what the last sign said, you’ll be fine. Pretty damn hard to rig that.
        seszett 8y ago
        I'm not sure which lights you are talking about, and none of your links are about French speedcams.
- sveme 8y ago
  In Germany you are not allowed to put up a speed cam just about anywhere. It needs to be an accident-prone site or one where it has been demonstrated before that it's prone to speeding.
toolslive 8y ago
There are places here in Belgium where everybody is officially 'speeding' (so driving more than 10km/h faster than what's allowed) and where even the police admits the speed limit was set too low. Guess where they put the hidden mobile cameras. If they were really really interested in making the roads safer for everyone, they would combine driving on the right with the right of way for people coming from the left iso coming from the right. Statistics show (you can measure this because there are countries where they drive left and have right of way from the right) that it lowers the death toll by almost 30%.
- seszett 8y ago
  Everyone is speeding everywhere in Belgium. We also get a lot more casualties (by inhabitant, by vehicle, by kilometer, any metric you take) than France. France has about 30% less deaths than Belgium, and gives right of way to people coming from the right. The road rules are almost exactly the same between the two countries. If anything, I think it just shows that speed limits are not enforced well enough (and I think it should start with switching to a points permit) in Belgium. I also personally find them often too high, with 70 often being allowed in urban areas outside the core parts of towns.
  - toolslive 8y ago
    mind there's a significant difference between Wallonia and Flanders. (see article below, in Dutch) https://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/aantal-verkeersdoden-daalt-maar-te-traag/article-normal-972973.html https://www.knack.be/nieuws/belgie/aantal-verkeersdoden-daal...
    - seszett 8y ago
      That's to be expected given the large difference between the regions, but the comparison still hold if you compare the more urbanised Nord département to Flanders. Nord is on paar with Noord-Brabant however, on the other side of Flanders. IMO there is no question that Flemish roads (I don't know Wallonia much) are less safe than French roads. Eurostat shows that quite well: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/RCI/#?vis=nuts1.transport&lang=en https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/cache/RCI/#?vis=nuts1.transpor...

adrianN 8y ago

There are very visible signs telling you how fast you can go without triggering any hidden speed cameras. They even paint them in reflective paint, so that you can see them better at night.

BhavdeepSethi 8y ago

Isn't the idea to enforce driving in speed limits all the time. Not only when you /know/ that a speed camera is present.

TomK32 8y ago

here's a great hack to avoid getting fined for speeding: Don't speed!

lb1lf 8y ago

-Here in Norway, every speed camera needs to be advertised by signs in order to let the driver know he's being monitored. Kind of defeats their purpose, as the idea is not to ensure people drive past the cam under the posted limit; it is to make sure they obey the posted limit, period. Speed cams would be most effective if they were hidden all over the place. (Or used to record average speed over some distance, which is a most effective way of ensuring people observe the speed limit!) The latter, though, will get the privacy nut in me annoyed unless the authorities flush the record of you passing immediately after verifying that you drove at or under the speed limit. Speed cameras are excellent surveillance devices, after all.