5 ms·

>There is one important caveat to keep in mind when thinking about our dataset. The SSA numbers include any wage earners whatsoever, even part-time workers like

by ausbah 8y ago

>There is one important caveat to keep in mind when thinking about our dataset. The SSA numbers include any wage earners whatsoever, even part-time workers like students and teenagers. not leading with this feels like poor reporting

ocschwar 8y ago
Students and minors don't make up anywhere near half of the working population, though.
- codeddesign 8y ago
  24% of the U.S. population is under the age of 18. If you include those that are in college, disabled, and retired then you are now at roughly 1/3 of the population. Based on the statististics provided in the article that would mean 75% of the population make above $30k.
  - wtallis 8y ago
    > 24% of the U.S. population is under the age of 18. We're talking about the US workforce, not the whole population.
- a11595 8y ago
  students and working-age minors are about 50% employed and about 15% of the population. This means the real under 30k number is now 40%. Median salary is 44k. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this statistic. The article is sensationalist and misleading. I'm going to guess the person who wrote it is making 30k, for lack of marketable skills and being a liar. I eyeballed all the numbers from here https://www.thebalancecareers.com/average-salary-information-for-us-workers-2060808 https://www.thebalancecareers.com/average-salary-information... https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-particip...
uniformlyrandom 8y ago
Just scroll down - the whole site is filled with questionable 'data insights'. Which City is Adding the Most Jobs in Your States in CA? San Bernardino. Oh wait, it is percentage mapped to region size, not to population - so going form 1 to 2 employees in a hypothetical empty but vast region would be a 100% growth, and nice peak on the map. Percentage of people living in extreme poverty in Russia and Kazakhstan? 0.0% (hint: it is actually no data) It is either a troll site, or a good example of data misinterpretation.
yellowbuilding 8y ago
Caveat? No. Not in a society that has less worker protections than any major country in the world. The implication in your treating this as a “caveat” is that there is a choice being made by some significant amount of the subjects studied. The reality is unknown, and the significance of the impact is more difficult than ever to reason with. The difficulty of arguing that this choice even exists for these people is as alarming as the study results taken at face value, and suggests your argument should be weighed more as a potential excuse than a “caveat”.
flukus 8y ago
A lot of those part time workers are living on that wage, so it's not misleading to leave it out. Full time employment is quickly becoming something only office workers have.
dpark 8y ago
They also use the term “earn” but the numbers they are throwing around are entirely after-tax. That’s not even poor reporting. That’s intentionally misleading. No one thinks that money paid to the government in the form for tax is unearned by the individual.
- extra88 8y ago
  Plus after tax can mean after one puts money into health coverage, retirement, a college fund, etc. That figure is much less scary as take-home than gross salary.
- Larrikin 8y ago
  The money that it says I make in my contract has basically been a meaningless number to me most of my life other than a hard number I don't need to calculate when comparing jobs. It is only now that I have a "true" job after graduate where I make enough money to be able to set aside some money before tax.
  - dpark 8y ago
    The money your employer pays you is what you actually earn. The fact that you pay taxes on your earnings does not reduce them. If your tax rate doubles next year, your earnings don't go down as a result (though your take-home will). The IRS specifically defines earned income as what your employer pays you. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/earned-income https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-in...
HarryHirsch 8y ago
When you look at the salary data for full-time-employed white men of prime working age the statistics aren't much rosier: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0253204200A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0253204200A Median salary: USD 34270.
- extra88 8y ago
  Did you mean to link to something else? That y axis is the quantity of persons who are white men and working full time, not their median salaries.
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    That's embarrassing.

by ausbah 8y ago

ocschwar 8y ago

Students and minors don't make up anywhere near half of the working population, though.

codeddesign 8y ago
24% of the U.S. population is under the age of 18. If you include those that are in college, disabled, and retired then you are now at roughly 1/3 of the population. Based on the statististics provided in the article that would mean 75% of the population make above $30k.
- wtallis 8y ago
  > 24% of the U.S. population is under the age of 18. We're talking about the US workforce, not the whole population.
a11595 8y ago
students and working-age minors are about 50% employed and about 15% of the population. This means the real under 30k number is now 40%. Median salary is 44k. I see absolutely nothing wrong with this statistic. The article is sensationalist and misleading. I'm going to guess the person who wrote it is making 30k, for lack of marketable skills and being a liar. I eyeballed all the numbers from here https://www.thebalancecareers.com/average-salary-information-for-us-workers-2060808 https://www.thebalancecareers.com/average-salary-information... https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm https://www.bls.gov/emp/tables/civilian-labor-force-particip...

uniformlyrandom 8y ago

Just scroll down - the whole site is filled with questionable 'data insights'. Which City is Adding the Most Jobs in Your States in CA? San Bernardino. Oh wait, it is percentage mapped to region size, not to population - so going form 1 to 2 employees in a hypothetical empty but vast region would be a 100% growth, and nice peak on the map. Percentage of people living in extreme poverty in Russia and Kazakhstan? 0.0% (hint: it is actually no data) It is either a troll site, or a good example of data misinterpretation.

yellowbuilding 8y ago

Caveat? No. Not in a society that has less worker protections than any major country in the world. The implication in your treating this as a “caveat” is that there is a choice being made by some significant amount of the subjects studied. The reality is unknown, and the significance of the impact is more difficult than ever to reason with. The difficulty of arguing that this choice even exists for these people is as alarming as the study results taken at face value, and suggests your argument should be weighed more as a potential excuse than a “caveat”.

flukus 8y ago

A lot of those part time workers are living on that wage, so it's not misleading to leave it out. Full time employment is quickly becoming something only office workers have.

dpark 8y ago

They also use the term “earn” but the numbers they are throwing around are entirely after-tax. That’s not even poor reporting. That’s intentionally misleading. No one thinks that money paid to the government in the form for tax is unearned by the individual.

extra88 8y ago
Plus after tax can mean after one puts money into health coverage, retirement, a college fund, etc. That figure is much less scary as take-home than gross salary.
Larrikin 8y ago
The money that it says I make in my contract has basically been a meaningless number to me most of my life other than a hard number I don't need to calculate when comparing jobs. It is only now that I have a "true" job after graduate where I make enough money to be able to set aside some money before tax.
- dpark 8y ago
  The money your employer pays you is what you actually earn. The fact that you pay taxes on your earnings does not reduce them. If your tax rate doubles next year, your earnings don't go down as a result (though your take-home will). The IRS specifically defines earned income as what your employer pays you. https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-income-tax-credit/earned-income https://www.irs.gov/credits-deductions/individuals/earned-in...

HarryHirsch 8y ago

When you look at the salary data for full-time-employed white men of prime working age the statistics aren't much rosier: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0253204200A https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0253204200A Median salary: USD 34270.

extra88 8y ago
Did you mean to link to something else? That y axis is the quantity of persons who are white men and working full time, not their median salaries.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  That's embarrassing.