22 ms·

i'm not going to keep responding because it's clear you haven't understood any of the above comments around the structural and generational concerns. there is

i'm not going to keep responding because it's clear you haven't understood any of the above comments around the structural and generational concerns. there is plentiful literature to better educate yourself and be less ignorant about this.

sparkie 8y ago
I understand the concerns, but your "solutions" are deeply flawed and faith based. Your idea that whites won't be discriminated is a joke, because it's already reality. Whites are actively discriminated against. This is what "positive discrimination" is. It means that if you have 9 white candidates and 1 non-white candate apply for 2 jobs, and you have a diversity quota to fill, then the non-white candidate has a 100% chance, and the white candidates have an 11% chance. Remove the racism quota and everyone has a 20% chance, as it should be. The systems in placed are already abused by assholes who try to game it. I've lost count of the number of threats of lawsuits I've had from "unprivileged" people who can barely string together an English sentence, because I refuse to hire or interview them. There are people who will play the system if it favors them. These are a minority of the minorities, but they're significant in that they waste resources (and actively harm people who are legitimately discriminated against). Anyone can have an opinion when they have no skin in the game. Spend a few years recruiting and all of the literature in the world is worth garbage - it's written mostly be people who have never interviewed, probably never had an interview or even a proper job in their lives because they've been sheltered by the academy.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  White People are not actively discriminated against, period. Your fears are absurd and unfounded, considering white people still compose the majority of tech and that has changed very little.
  - asabjorn 8y ago
    You can’t have it both ways; claiming no discrimination is happening to a group and then applying social engineering based upon the immutable traits of that group. The questions isn’t if there is discrimination, but how much of it there is and what the effects are. You might argue that it has a good reason and others might disagree with your arguments.
  - sparkie 8y ago
    The majority of applicants for tech roles are white men, period! It's no accident that if you have 80% white people apply for jobs, then 80% of your company is going to be white. This is, assuming you do not discriminate based on skin color. If you have 80% white apply, and only 60% of your company is white, then you are disciminating based on skin color. This is racism! I don't care how you want to spin it, whether you think it is justified or not, it is plain racism. This is why I use the term racism quota and not diversity quota. Call things for what they are. If you want to change the situation, then positive action would be actions which cause the number of applicants of color to increase. However, you need to be careful when planning this too - because educating non-whites "more than" whites, deliberately, is just moving the discrimination to white boys. The idea of "black-only workshops" is racist, just as it would be if there were "white-only workshops." Everyone should be given the same opportunities, and I'm all for improving the state of education in communities where it has been substandard or non-existant in the past, so as to level the playing field. Perhaps education alone won't cut it, because there might be some more fundamental cultural issues which account for the significant differences in graduates of tech related fields. Women, for example, are only 15% of CS grads at best. It is absurd to expect equal representation of programmers to be female given the statistics but don't let that get in the way of your faith in social justice. Men can't be victims of your actions, after all. If you think that girls don't get into tech because of some perceived patriarchy where they are oppressed, you are absolutely delusional. The biggest thing preventing girls getting into tech is other girls - the bullying they receive in school.
    - octernion 8y ago
      sorry you can't discriminate against white people, and it's not racism. again i feel like everyone has been very clear with you and i'm sorry you can't understand this.
      - dang 8y ago
        Ideological flamewar is not welcome on Hacker News, regardless of which ideology you're flaming. You did more than anyone else to turn this thread into a hellish flamewar. We ban accounts that post like this. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sparkie 8y ago

I understand the concerns, but your "solutions" are deeply flawed and faith based. Your idea that whites won't be discriminated is a joke, because it's already reality. Whites are actively discriminated against. This is what "positive discrimination" is. It means that if you have 9 white candidates and 1 non-white candate apply for 2 jobs, and you have a diversity quota to fill, then the non-white candidate has a 100% chance, and the white candidates have an 11% chance. Remove the racism quota and everyone has a 20% chance, as it should be. The systems in placed are already abused by assholes who try to game it. I've lost count of the number of threats of lawsuits I've had from "unprivileged" people who can barely string together an English sentence, because I refuse to hire or interview them. There are people who will play the system if it favors them. These are a minority of the minorities, but they're significant in that they waste resources (and actively harm people who are legitimately discriminated against). Anyone can have an opinion when they have no skin in the game. Spend a few years recruiting and all of the literature in the world is worth garbage - it's written mostly be people who have never interviewed, probably never had an interview or even a proper job in their lives because they've been sheltered by the academy.

fzeroracer 8y ago
White People are not actively discriminated against, period. Your fears are absurd and unfounded, considering white people still compose the majority of tech and that has changed very little.
- asabjorn 8y ago
  You can’t have it both ways; claiming no discrimination is happening to a group and then applying social engineering based upon the immutable traits of that group. The questions isn’t if there is discrimination, but how much of it there is and what the effects are. You might argue that it has a good reason and others might disagree with your arguments.
- sparkie 8y ago
  The majority of applicants for tech roles are white men, period! It's no accident that if you have 80% white people apply for jobs, then 80% of your company is going to be white. This is, assuming you do not discriminate based on skin color. If you have 80% white apply, and only 60% of your company is white, then you are disciminating based on skin color. This is racism! I don't care how you want to spin it, whether you think it is justified or not, it is plain racism. This is why I use the term racism quota and not diversity quota. Call things for what they are. If you want to change the situation, then positive action would be actions which cause the number of applicants of color to increase. However, you need to be careful when planning this too - because educating non-whites "more than" whites, deliberately, is just moving the discrimination to white boys. The idea of "black-only workshops" is racist, just as it would be if there were "white-only workshops." Everyone should be given the same opportunities, and I'm all for improving the state of education in communities where it has been substandard or non-existant in the past, so as to level the playing field. Perhaps education alone won't cut it, because there might be some more fundamental cultural issues which account for the significant differences in graduates of tech related fields. Women, for example, are only 15% of CS grads at best. It is absurd to expect equal representation of programmers to be female given the statistics but don't let that get in the way of your faith in social justice. Men can't be victims of your actions, after all. If you think that girls don't get into tech because of some perceived patriarchy where they are oppressed, you are absolutely delusional. The biggest thing preventing girls getting into tech is other girls - the bullying they receive in school.
  - octernion 8y ago
    sorry you can't discriminate against white people, and it's not racism. again i feel like everyone has been very clear with you and i'm sorry you can't understand this.
    - dang 8y ago
      Ideological flamewar is not welcome on Hacker News, regardless of which ideology you're flaming. You did more than anyone else to turn this thread into a hellish flamewar. We ban accounts that post like this. Please don't do it again. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html