3 ms·

you seem to want to move to a genderless language similar to the example you gave ("classless society"). i'm skeptical that that will work either, since there i

by smhost 8y ago

you seem to want to move to a genderless language similar to the example you gave ("classless society"). i'm skeptical that that will work either, since there is really no precedent for that kind of postmodern language existing alongside successful emancipatory politics. also, as a side note, the soviets didn't actually believe that they had achieved a classless society, they thought of themselves as a placeholder or an accelerant, unless you're thinking of something else. also, what you're saying reminds me of the novel "the dispossessed" by ursula k le guin where there's a civilization that has erased all concepts of hierarchy from its language and culture. it's seems rather dystopian, but maybe you disagree.

js8 8y ago
"you seem to want to move to a genderless language" Not really, I don't think language is that important, I think in the few cases I presented it just hurts the cause (because it makes it seem that it is about power for some other group rather than equality). But I am not particularly against e.g. gendered pronouns. But maybe... "there is really no precedent for that kind of postmodern language existing alongside successful emancipatory politics" I disagree. I think there are examples of emancipation where the language that was previously used day-to-day (for example, to refer to somebody with the n-word) fell into disuse. In fact, I think it's natural to happen if the emancipation is successful (because people will simply stop caring about the divide). So maybe there will eventually be no gender pronouns. I can't really take fiction as an argument, but I am reminded of Greg Egan's novel Schild's Ladder, which has humans in far far future, having no actual gender and even opt-in bodies, and ironically, the last thing that reminds people there ever was such a thing as gender, are gendered pronouns (which are entirely a matter of personal choice).

by smhost 8y ago

js8 8y ago

"you seem to want to move to a genderless language" Not really, I don't think language is that important, I think in the few cases I presented it just hurts the cause (because it makes it seem that it is about power for some other group rather than equality). But I am not particularly against e.g. gendered pronouns. But maybe... "there is really no precedent for that kind of postmodern language existing alongside successful emancipatory politics" I disagree. I think there are examples of emancipation where the language that was previously used day-to-day (for example, to refer to somebody with the n-word) fell into disuse. In fact, I think it's natural to happen if the emancipation is successful (because people will simply stop caring about the divide). So maybe there will eventually be no gender pronouns. I can't really take fiction as an argument, but I am reminded of Greg Egan's novel Schild's Ladder, which has humans in far far future, having no actual gender and even opt-in bodies, and ironically, the last thing that reminds people there ever was such a thing as gender, are gendered pronouns (which are entirely a matter of personal choice).