5 ms·

Search engines, messaging services, and social networks that are all threatened by this should forego their competitive instincts and share information about ho

by beager 8y ago

Search engines, messaging services, and social networks that are all threatened by this should forego their competitive instincts and share information about how to combat this issue. If Google doesn’t have this issue but Bing and DuckDuckGo do, I’d feel morally bound as Google to share best practices to help them prevent indexing, suggesting, and retrieving this content.

asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago
Google already does a lot to help with this. E.g. https://qrius.com/google-to-launch-ai-toolkit-in-renewed-efforts-to-tackle-child-sexual-abuse-online/ https://qrius.com/google-to-launch-ai-toolkit-in-renewed-eff... Microsoft also shares a lot of stuff with the industry, including PhotoDNA hashes of known CP images. Just because it is not publicly discussed doesn't mean there isn't a lot of work going on, even between organizations, to work on this problem.
- dzhiurgis 8y ago
  Apparently iOS does on-device image classification and reports stuff somewhere that isn't exactly legal.
  - Skunkleton 8y ago
    What like safari when it hits an arbitrary page? I wonder how this is applied to other types illegal images. Source?
    - dzhiurgis 8y ago
      I meant pictures taken with your device.
      - kwhitefoot 8y ago
        That's a pretty strong claim. Do you have any evidence you can share?
        Skunkleton 8y ago
        I remember hearing something about photos in iCloud. Maybe that is what we are talking about?
        dzhiurgis 8y ago
        https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.techspot.com/amp/news/71658-people-shocked-apple-image-recognition-system-can-categorize.html https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.techspot.com/amp/news/716...
  - jackvalentine 8y ago
    Source?
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
mmmmmmmmm 8y ago
The techniques used to prevent this issue are almost certainly highly valuable in many other applications of search. You're essentially asking Google to give away their hard-earned competitive advantage for free. Maybe Google could create some sort of api for filtering these results that the other engines could choose to use, but asking Google to just give away their trade secrets for free is ludicrous.
ickler9 8y ago
There's a reason this was shared with TechCrunch before it was shared with Microsoft. Do we know Google didn't also have this issue? Or did they have it, patch it, and then make the press aware. Look back at Facebook's PR groups spamming TechCrunch with "tips" and hoping to seed negative articles about their adversaries. This whole thing, while a very valid problem that needs to be addressed immediately- reads exactly like some PR group dropping tips on a client's competitors to TechCrunch. Forgive me if I'm skeptical of the motives of someone who cares more about the press finding out first that Bing is leaking potential child porn, over actually removing access to child porn.
- codezero 8y ago
  I don’t think this needs to be a conspiracy. Bing is far behind. I worked on a suicide awareness project when I was at Quora, and at least at the time Google had help links featured for suicide subjects and Bing had instructions on how to kill yourself. Arguably Bing had the better search results but not the high ground. This could be another one of those cases.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    >>I worked on a suicide awareness project when I was at Quora, and at least at the time Google had help links featured for suicide subjects and Bing had instructions on how to kill yourself. Arguably Bing had the better search results but not the high ground. This is not being behind, it's showing what the user wants. BING should have banners or ads on suicide prevention, that's all. If you want to kill yourself, a suicide prevention page is not the most relevant one. This story is to give a black eye to MSFT, they could have just told them instead of doing studies, but that doesn't bring clicks to their site. A lot of times competitors are behind such stories. Not necessarily google, it could be a vendor hoping that MS hires them.
    - codezero 8y ago
      It’s definitely being behind. Helping your users die will affect your ability to profit from them in the future, it also costs almost nothing to show a suicide prevention banner with a help line, and they are known to help prevent suicide. That said, I’m not at all arguing that a competitor or vendor wasn’t the reason for this article.
RIMR 8y ago
I'm not saying that this is right, but the reality is that Microsoft's failure here drives more people to Google, so there is actually a lot of capitalist incentive to allow Bing to fail at this. Morally, we should all strive to minimize this kind of thing - but from a business perspective, this story will absolutely earn Google business and capital.
- tropo 8y ago
  Excessive filtering (threshold set to take no chances) has started to make people seek Google alternatives. The easiest way for Google to respond to this threat is to push stories that will pressure the competition into damaging results with excessive filtering.

by beager 8y ago

asdfasgasdgasdg 8y ago

Google already does a lot to help with this. E.g. https://qrius.com/google-to-launch-ai-toolkit-in-renewed-efforts-to-tackle-child-sexual-abuse-online/ https://qrius.com/google-to-launch-ai-toolkit-in-renewed-eff... Microsoft also shares a lot of stuff with the industry, including PhotoDNA hashes of known CP images. Just because it is not publicly discussed doesn't mean there isn't a lot of work going on, even between organizations, to work on this problem.

dzhiurgis 8y ago
Apparently iOS does on-device image classification and reports stuff somewhere that isn't exactly legal.
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  What like safari when it hits an arbitrary page? I wonder how this is applied to other types illegal images. Source?
  - dzhiurgis 8y ago
    I meant pictures taken with your device.
    - kwhitefoot 8y ago
      That's a pretty strong claim. Do you have any evidence you can share?
      - Skunkleton 8y ago
        I remember hearing something about photos in iCloud. Maybe that is what we are talking about?
      - dzhiurgis 8y ago
        https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.techspot.com/amp/news/71658-people-shocked-apple-image-recognition-system-can-categorize.html https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.techspot.com/amp/news/716...
- jackvalentine 8y ago
  Source?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

mmmmmmmmm 8y ago

The techniques used to prevent this issue are almost certainly highly valuable in many other applications of search. You're essentially asking Google to give away their hard-earned competitive advantage for free. Maybe Google could create some sort of api for filtering these results that the other engines could choose to use, but asking Google to just give away their trade secrets for free is ludicrous.

ickler9 8y ago

There's a reason this was shared with TechCrunch before it was shared with Microsoft. Do we know Google didn't also have this issue? Or did they have it, patch it, and then make the press aware. Look back at Facebook's PR groups spamming TechCrunch with "tips" and hoping to seed negative articles about their adversaries. This whole thing, while a very valid problem that needs to be addressed immediately- reads exactly like some PR group dropping tips on a client's competitors to TechCrunch. Forgive me if I'm skeptical of the motives of someone who cares more about the press finding out first that Bing is leaking potential child porn, over actually removing access to child porn.

codezero 8y ago
I don’t think this needs to be a conspiracy. Bing is far behind. I worked on a suicide awareness project when I was at Quora, and at least at the time Google had help links featured for suicide subjects and Bing had instructions on how to kill yourself. Arguably Bing had the better search results but not the high ground. This could be another one of those cases.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  >>I worked on a suicide awareness project when I was at Quora, and at least at the time Google had help links featured for suicide subjects and Bing had instructions on how to kill yourself. Arguably Bing had the better search results but not the high ground. This is not being behind, it's showing what the user wants. BING should have banners or ads on suicide prevention, that's all. If you want to kill yourself, a suicide prevention page is not the most relevant one. This story is to give a black eye to MSFT, they could have just told them instead of doing studies, but that doesn't bring clicks to their site. A lot of times competitors are behind such stories. Not necessarily google, it could be a vendor hoping that MS hires them.
  - codezero 8y ago
    It’s definitely being behind. Helping your users die will affect your ability to profit from them in the future, it also costs almost nothing to show a suicide prevention banner with a help line, and they are known to help prevent suicide. That said, I’m not at all arguing that a competitor or vendor wasn’t the reason for this article.

RIMR 8y ago

I'm not saying that this is right, but the reality is that Microsoft's failure here drives more people to Google, so there is actually a lot of capitalist incentive to allow Bing to fail at this. Morally, we should all strive to minimize this kind of thing - but from a business perspective, this story will absolutely earn Google business and capital.

tropo 8y ago
Excessive filtering (threshold set to take no chances) has started to make people seek Google alternatives. The easiest way for Google to respond to this threat is to push stories that will pressure the competition into damaging results with excessive filtering.