6 ms·

it's not "the other extreme." it's just a more objective view. it's just true that traditional masculine norms leads to circumstances where: > boys are dispr

by smhost 8y ago

it's not "the other extreme." it's just a more objective view. it's just true that traditional masculine norms leads to circumstances where: > boys are disproportionately represented among schoolchildren with learning difficulties (e.g., lower standardized test scores) and behavior problems (e.g., bullying, school suspensions, aggression). Likewise, men are overrepresented in prisons, are more likely than women to commit violent crimes, and are at greatest risk of being a victim of violent crime

leereeves 8y ago
Men are punished more often and more severely than women who commit the same crimes. Girls who bully boys are less likely to be punished (and less likely to appear in the statistics) . Likewise for domestic violence, sexual assault, statutory rape, etc. You can't ignore the contribution of societal bias against men and masculinity to the outcomes you describe. Small biases early in life give boys a bad reputation, restrict their options, and create anger, leading to more severe criminal activity later, while women and girls are more often forgiven and able to continue their lives.
- smhost 8y ago
  yes, paternalistic discipline and punish structures are also problematic.
antisthenes 8y ago
You're going to need to provide evidence that well-functioning masculinity results in poor outcomes for men in the way you described. Nothing in the traditional masculinity framework promotes or encourages behavioral problems (and/or violence) or turns a blind eye to learning difficulties. To suggest that, for example, assertiveness and competitiveness lead to such outcomes, is, at best an unscientific stretch and at worst - actively harmful by promoting solutions that have no basis in reality.
- smhost 8y ago
  you might think that, but it's really the other way around. you have to provide (very rigorous and thorough) evidence that toxic masculinity is harmless.
  - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
    That doesn't even make sense. The null hypothesis is assumed to be true, you don't go about proving the null hypothesis.
    - smhost 8y ago
      of course it makes sense, just not from your perspective. from the perspective of the APA, it's on you to explain how these definitionally aggressive and violent behaviors that have obvious and immediate measurable negative consequences are harmless or even good. if these behaviors are good, then those good effects are very indirect and the effects can only be seen from a very abstract social analysis. but they're not sociologists, they're psychologists.
      - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
        From the perspective of inferential statistics, the nature of the null hypothesis is that it is assumed to be true and only through sufficient testing, the null hypothesis can be rejected in favor of the alternative hypothesis.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

by smhost 8y ago

leereeves 8y ago

Men are punished more often and more severely than women who commit the same crimes. Girls who bully boys are less likely to be punished (and less likely to appear in the statistics) . Likewise for domestic violence, sexual assault, statutory rape, etc. You can't ignore the contribution of societal bias against men and masculinity to the outcomes you describe. Small biases early in life give boys a bad reputation, restrict their options, and create anger, leading to more severe criminal activity later, while women and girls are more often forgiven and able to continue their lives.

smhost 8y ago
yes, paternalistic discipline and punish structures are also problematic.

antisthenes 8y ago

You're going to need to provide evidence that well-functioning masculinity results in poor outcomes for men in the way you described. Nothing in the traditional masculinity framework promotes or encourages behavioral problems (and/or violence) or turns a blind eye to learning difficulties. To suggest that, for example, assertiveness and competitiveness lead to such outcomes, is, at best an unscientific stretch and at worst - actively harmful by promoting solutions that have no basis in reality.

smhost 8y ago
you might think that, but it's really the other way around. you have to provide (very rigorous and thorough) evidence that toxic masculinity is harmless.
- CompanionCuuube 8y ago
  That doesn't even make sense. The null hypothesis is assumed to be true, you don't go about proving the null hypothesis.
  - smhost 8y ago
    of course it makes sense, just not from your perspective. from the perspective of the APA, it's on you to explain how these definitionally aggressive and violent behaviors that have obvious and immediate measurable negative consequences are harmless or even good. if these behaviors are good, then those good effects are very indirect and the effects can only be seen from a very abstract social analysis. but they're not sociologists, they're psychologists.
    - CompanionCuuube 8y ago
      From the perspective of inferential statistics, the nature of the null hypothesis is that it is assumed to be true and only through sufficient testing, the null hypothesis can be rejected in favor of the alternative hypothesis.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]