4 ms·

Having child pornography in your pocession is a crime. If MSFT has indexed without showing any good faith effort to avoid indexing then the DOJ can and should p

Having child pornography in your pocession is a crime. If MSFT has indexed without showing any good faith effort to avoid indexing then the DOJ can and should prosecute them for the felony that it is.

arbitrage 8y ago
No. That's not how it works. Corporations are not people, regardless of the Citizens United ruling. The laws don't apply the same way.
- hacknat 8y ago
  They can be charged civilly for the equivalent (child endangerment or something).
  - arbitrage 8y ago
    Yeah, that's not the part that I'm disagreeing with. Specifically: > If MSFT has indexed without showing any good faith effort to avoid indexing then the DOJ can and should prosecute That's not how it works. At all. That part right there.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      For statutory crimes, this is how it works for people. "We don't care the reason or mitigating circumstances you have, or even if you did it. You have the $thing , so you're at fault." (The -1's, this is how statutory crimes work. I'm stating a fact, not making ethical determinations about it. I personally think that mens rea absolutely needs to be incorporated at a minimum.)
      - dmurray 8y ago
        The phrase you are looking for is "strict liability offence".
      - jkartchner 8y ago
        As I've mentioned above, child porn is NOT a strict liability crime. The prosecutor will definitely need to prove you knew or should have known it was child porn.
        monocasa 8y ago
        In many states, the possession of child pornography is absolutely a strict liability offence. For instance: https://kellerlawoffices.com/child-pornography-accidental-possession-defense-possible/ https://kellerlawoffices.com/child-pornography-accidental-po...
- roywiggins 8y ago
  Corporations can be criminally charged: "Corporations are 'legal persons,' capable of suing and being sued, and capable of committing crimes." https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/04/what-happens-when-a-company-gets-indicted.html https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/04/what-happens-when-... I don't know what Microsoft might be guilty of here, if anything. But corporations can be indicted.
  - calgoo 8y ago
    Yes but the company can’t be put in jail. At the most they will punish someone if they did something knowingly. That’s the issue with this law, it acts like companies are people, but in the end the punishments are not the same.
    - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
      The root goes back to the fact that child porn laws do not contain a mens rea. It's a statutory crime: you possessed the image, you're guilty. Almost every other crime take in account the mind of the accused. Someone who forgot their dog food was on the bottom of the cart and leaves isn't committing theft, as long as they go back and make it right. And on the other end, we execute people who conduct premeditated murder. And also we take in account an accidental homicide due to negligence (manslaughter) as a limited punishment. And worst yet, how do you tell a 17year364days old's image on pornhub and 18year old's picture? You get arrested for CP on the 17.364 image if you're caught and they know it's bad. Did it matter if the minor perjured themselves? Nope. Did they use a fake ID? Who cares. You're at fault.
      - jkartchner 8y ago
        Most child porn statutes, even if they dont include a mens rea requirement in the plain language, often have it read in. Child porn is NOT a strict liability crime. Rather, it's treated more like a drug crime.
        crankylinuxuser 8y ago
- tedivm 8y ago
  Corporations aren't people, but that doesn't mean that they and the people that run it are immune from prosecution. As an example, the Deputy AG in California is considering murder or manslaughter charges against PGE[1]. 1. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/28/state-ag-if-pge-caused-wildfires-by-gross-deviation-of-safety-norms-it-could-have-committed-serious-crimes/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/28/state-ag-if-pge-cause...
freeflight 8y ago
> Having child pornography in your pocession is a crime. That really depends on the legal domain one is operating in and even between those where it is a crime, the definitions as to what constitutes as "child pornography" and what not, isn't as easily drawn as some people like to think [0]. [0] https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-convicted-over-illegal-7958896 https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-c...
- claudiawerner 8y ago
  Around 1500 people a year according to government stats of the UK (VAWG report) are convicted of having animated "child porn". Robin Hoque was unfortunately not an isolated case.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    Once FmRI and brain reading tech is ready, merely thinking or wondering about it or the insanity of CP will be illegal.
partiallypro 8y ago
Microsoft has a technology that protects against child porn, in which they license. There is no doubt they've made an effort. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jul/27/social-workers-child-sex-grooming https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jul/27/social-worke... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/bing-child-abuse_n_3676171.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/bing-child-abuse_n...
- beavis2 8y ago
  It's obviously failing miserably, like most other things they produce (or buy).
  - northwest65 8y ago
    2019 is the year of the Linux desktop...I can feeeeel it!
    - hockeybias 8y ago
      Any decade now...
  - partiallypro 8y ago
    Ah yes, the largest (or second largest, it varies per day) company is failing miserably on all fronts according to anonymous commenter on HN. Sounds legit.
    - beavis2 8y ago
      I said "most". They're a one-trick pony, mostly thanks to manipulation. And now this. Vulgar images, available directly from your start menu.
      - recursive 8y ago
        Yes, here is the revenue distribution of a one trick pony. https://www.geekwire.com/2017/new-numbers-show-microsofts-biggest-businesses-really-cloud-era/ https://www.geekwire.com/2017/new-numbers-show-microsofts-bi... In fact, they've got so many "tricks", I'm not sure which one you're even referring to.

arbitrage 8y ago

No. That's not how it works. Corporations are not people, regardless of the Citizens United ruling. The laws don't apply the same way.

hacknat 8y ago
They can be charged civilly for the equivalent (child endangerment or something).
- arbitrage 8y ago
  Yeah, that's not the part that I'm disagreeing with. Specifically: > If MSFT has indexed without showing any good faith effort to avoid indexing then the DOJ can and should prosecute That's not how it works. At all. That part right there.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    For statutory crimes, this is how it works for people. "We don't care the reason or mitigating circumstances you have, or even if you did it. You have the $thing , so you're at fault." (The -1's, this is how statutory crimes work. I'm stating a fact, not making ethical determinations about it. I personally think that mens rea absolutely needs to be incorporated at a minimum.)
    - dmurray 8y ago
      The phrase you are looking for is "strict liability offence".
    - jkartchner 8y ago
      As I've mentioned above, child porn is NOT a strict liability crime. The prosecutor will definitely need to prove you knew or should have known it was child porn.
      - monocasa 8y ago
        In many states, the possession of child pornography is absolutely a strict liability offence. For instance: https://kellerlawoffices.com/child-pornography-accidental-possession-defense-possible/ https://kellerlawoffices.com/child-pornography-accidental-po...
roywiggins 8y ago
Corporations can be criminally charged: "Corporations are 'legal persons,' capable of suing and being sued, and capable of committing crimes." https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/04/what-happens-when-a-company-gets-indicted.html https://blogs.findlaw.com/blotter/2014/04/what-happens-when-... I don't know what Microsoft might be guilty of here, if anything. But corporations can be indicted.
- calgoo 8y ago
  Yes but the company can’t be put in jail. At the most they will punish someone if they did something knowingly. That’s the issue with this law, it acts like companies are people, but in the end the punishments are not the same.
  - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
    The root goes back to the fact that child porn laws do not contain a mens rea. It's a statutory crime: you possessed the image, you're guilty. Almost every other crime take in account the mind of the accused. Someone who forgot their dog food was on the bottom of the cart and leaves isn't committing theft, as long as they go back and make it right. And on the other end, we execute people who conduct premeditated murder. And also we take in account an accidental homicide due to negligence (manslaughter) as a limited punishment. And worst yet, how do you tell a 17year364days old's image on pornhub and 18year old's picture? You get arrested for CP on the 17.364 image if you're caught and they know it's bad. Did it matter if the minor perjured themselves? Nope. Did they use a fake ID? Who cares. You're at fault.
    - jkartchner 8y ago
      Most child porn statutes, even if they dont include a mens rea requirement in the plain language, often have it read in. Child porn is NOT a strict liability crime. Rather, it's treated more like a drug crime.
      - crankylinuxuser 8y ago
tedivm 8y ago
Corporations aren't people, but that doesn't mean that they and the people that run it are immune from prosecution. As an example, the Deputy AG in California is considering murder or manslaughter charges against PGE[1]. 1. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/28/state-ag-if-pge-caused-wildfires-by-gross-deviation-of-safety-norms-it-could-have-committed-serious-crimes/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/12/28/state-ag-if-pge-cause...

freeflight 8y ago

> Having child pornography in your pocession is a crime. That really depends on the legal domain one is operating in and even between those where it is a crime, the definitions as to what constitutes as "child pornography" and what not, isn't as easily drawn as some people like to think [0]. [0] https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-convicted-over-illegal-7958896 https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/anime-fan-c...

claudiawerner 8y ago
Around 1500 people a year according to government stats of the UK (VAWG report) are convicted of having animated "child porn". Robin Hoque was unfortunately not an isolated case.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  Once FmRI and brain reading tech is ready, merely thinking or wondering about it or the insanity of CP will be illegal.

partiallypro 8y ago

Microsoft has a technology that protects against child porn, in which they license. There is no doubt they've made an effort. https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/photodna https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jul/27/social-workers-child-sex-grooming https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/jul/27/social-worke... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/bing-child-abuse_n_3676171.html https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/bing-child-abuse_n...

beavis2 8y ago
It's obviously failing miserably, like most other things they produce (or buy).
- northwest65 8y ago
  2019 is the year of the Linux desktop...I can feeeeel it!
  - hockeybias 8y ago
    Any decade now...
- partiallypro 8y ago
  Ah yes, the largest (or second largest, it varies per day) company is failing miserably on all fronts according to anonymous commenter on HN. Sounds legit.
  - beavis2 8y ago
    I said "most". They're a one-trick pony, mostly thanks to manipulation. And now this. Vulgar images, available directly from your start menu.
    - recursive 8y ago
      Yes, here is the revenue distribution of a one trick pony. https://www.geekwire.com/2017/new-numbers-show-microsofts-biggest-businesses-really-cloud-era/ https://www.geekwire.com/2017/new-numbers-show-microsofts-bi... In fact, they've got so many "tricks", I'm not sure which one you're even referring to.