6 ms·

Precisely the same reason for rising anti-immigrant sentiment. I wonder if many people holding said sentiments would feel differently if the economy was growing

by lainga 8y ago

Precisely the same reason for rising anti-immigrant sentiment. I wonder if many people holding said sentiments would feel differently if the economy was growing steadily, adding jobs for both them and newcomers. But it isn't, so competition is inevitable, and thus anxiety over competition.

akhilcacharya 8y ago
The economy is growing steadily...it has for 4-5 years now...
- dv_dt 8y ago
  GDP is an imperfect measure. For example, the number of people below the 50% poverty line grew too.
  - refurb 8y ago
    The poverty rate has dropped for the 3rd year in a row and is almost to same levels as pre-2008 crisis.[1] In fact, near record lows over the past 50 years. [1]https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/09/poverty-rate-drops-third-consecutive-year-2017.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/09/poverty-rate-...
    - dv_dt 8y ago
      I think what you are saying about the data is misleading. Look at the chart. The reason the poverty rate had a three year drop was because it was at at 10 year high around 15% starting around 2010, and only recently started dropping significantly. The "50 year low" is very misleading. If you actually look at the graph, the poverty in 1970 was 12.6%, and in 2017 12.3%. That's not a "50 year low", that's 50 years of essentially no progress on the poverty rate, especially when ten years ago it was higher. If you look at the people falling below 50% of the poverty line (deep poverty), that's had it's ups and downs too, but has had an overall slow increase of rate over the same time frame. https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-united-states https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-un...
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  Last time I heard of it, the gap between rich and poor wasn't just growing, but at an increasing rate. Has it been shrinking in the last 4-5 years? If not, the fact that the economy as a whole grew makes the problem worse.
- darpa_escapee 8y ago
  The post-2008 economy replaced many middle class, and even upper middle class, jobs with ~$9/hr retail jobs and the gig economy. Both lack sufficient benefits, like health insurance, and the former ensures you never work 40 hours a week because the ACA requires businesses to offer health plans to full time workers. If you're relatively young and in a metro area, you probably don't see it. Step out into the suburbs or more rural areas, and growth means that there's a new Dollar Tree and it's hiring.
  - refurb 8y ago
    There are more people insured post-ACA than before.
    - darpa_escapee 8y ago
      This doesn't change anything for the people who are purposely scheduled for under 30 hours weeks so they aren't considered full-time. The problem isn't with the ACA, it's with employers who are willing to save a buck by disadvantaging their employees.
      - refurb 8y ago
        Sure, but overall the impact of ACA is positive in that more people have medical insurance.
ticmasta 8y ago
Depending on where you live, ask someone in their 40's who came from China, India or Pakistan, someone in their 60's from Eastern Europe or someone over 80 from Ireland or Italy about "anti-immigrant sentiment". I'd be very surprised if their stories were all that different. We keep getting fed the narrative that racism is out of control, but I believe it's not worse, it's just as bad as it's always been. This doesn't make the situation better, but it does clamp down on the hysteria that (a) things are getting worse or (b) the rate of worsening(?) is increasing....
- watwut 8y ago
  It is possible for things to be better then 60 years ago while becomming progressively worst over last dozen or so years. Racism or animosity toward whatever group is not constant. And also, we should not use worst periods as benchmark for "it is ok if it is not as bad".
trophycase 8y ago
Anti-immigrant sentiment has little to do with jobs IMO. Jobs are simply the politically-correct face of the anti-immigrant movement. What's really at play is that immigration has been framed as a threat to [white] western culture, and that this "invasion" will bring about an end to Capitalist and Enlightenment values throughout the West.

by lainga 8y ago

akhilcacharya 8y ago

The economy is growing steadily...it has for 4-5 years now...

dv_dt 8y ago
GDP is an imperfect measure. For example, the number of people below the 50% poverty line grew too.
- refurb 8y ago
  The poverty rate has dropped for the 3rd year in a row and is almost to same levels as pre-2008 crisis.[1] In fact, near record lows over the past 50 years. [1]https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/09/poverty-rate-drops-third-consecutive-year-2017.html https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2018/09/poverty-rate-...
  - dv_dt 8y ago
    I think what you are saying about the data is misleading. Look at the chart. The reason the poverty rate had a three year drop was because it was at at 10 year high around 15% starting around 2010, and only recently started dropping significantly. The "50 year low" is very misleading. If you actually look at the graph, the poverty in 1970 was 12.6%, and in 2017 12.3%. That's not a "50 year low", that's 50 years of essentially no progress on the poverty rate, especially when ten years ago it was higher. If you look at the people falling below 50% of the poverty line (deep poverty), that's had it's ups and downs too, but has had an overall slow increase of rate over the same time frame. https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-united-states https://poverty.ucdavis.edu/faq/what-current-poverty-rate-un...
PavlovsCat 8y ago
Last time I heard of it, the gap between rich and poor wasn't just growing, but at an increasing rate. Has it been shrinking in the last 4-5 years? If not, the fact that the economy as a whole grew makes the problem worse.
darpa_escapee 8y ago
The post-2008 economy replaced many middle class, and even upper middle class, jobs with ~$9/hr retail jobs and the gig economy. Both lack sufficient benefits, like health insurance, and the former ensures you never work 40 hours a week because the ACA requires businesses to offer health plans to full time workers. If you're relatively young and in a metro area, you probably don't see it. Step out into the suburbs or more rural areas, and growth means that there's a new Dollar Tree and it's hiring.
- refurb 8y ago
  There are more people insured post-ACA than before.
  - darpa_escapee 8y ago
    This doesn't change anything for the people who are purposely scheduled for under 30 hours weeks so they aren't considered full-time. The problem isn't with the ACA, it's with employers who are willing to save a buck by disadvantaging their employees.
    - refurb 8y ago
      Sure, but overall the impact of ACA is positive in that more people have medical insurance.

ticmasta 8y ago

Depending on where you live, ask someone in their 40's who came from China, India or Pakistan, someone in their 60's from Eastern Europe or someone over 80 from Ireland or Italy about "anti-immigrant sentiment". I'd be very surprised if their stories were all that different. We keep getting fed the narrative that racism is out of control, but I believe it's not worse, it's just as bad as it's always been. This doesn't make the situation better, but it does clamp down on the hysteria that (a) things are getting worse or (b) the rate of worsening(?) is increasing....

watwut 8y ago
It is possible for things to be better then 60 years ago while becomming progressively worst over last dozen or so years. Racism or animosity toward whatever group is not constant. And also, we should not use worst periods as benchmark for "it is ok if it is not as bad".

trophycase 8y ago

Anti-immigrant sentiment has little to do with jobs IMO. Jobs are simply the politically-correct face of the anti-immigrant movement. What's really at play is that immigration has been framed as a threat to [white] western culture, and that this "invasion" will bring about an end to Capitalist and Enlightenment values throughout the West.