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i will say that the mental gymnastics necessary to make "being nice" and "not being a shitty racist or misogynist" a "religion", so that you can say "i'm a prop

i will say that the mental gymnastics necessary to make "being nice" and "not being a shitty racist or misogynist" a "religion", so that you can say "i'm a proponent of a secular state" is just really impressive so congrats on that. really neat stuff.

sparkie 8y ago
The social justice religion is not "being nice" or "not being racist." Most of humanity fits into those categories. (Obviously there are some exceptions). Social justice is about action to force your version of morality or ethics on society, usually by whatever means necessary, or without concern about the collateral damage caused by such actions. It usually manifests as complete hypocrisy. Let's stop hate by being hateful to people who disagree. Let's prevent exclusion of people by excluding those who disagree, etc. It's really just exchanging one form of tribalism for another, but the tribalist tendencies are still loud and clear.
- octernion 8y ago
  > Most of humanity fits into those categories. [citation needed]. "social justice" is absolutely that "most of humanity" does _not_ fall into those categories and in fact there are massive structural failures with society. it's not "hypocrisy" to deplatform (& socially shun) racists & misogynists, and acknowledge white privilege. if you disagree with those basic tenants than you aren't worthy of being in the discussion, and, reasonable non-shitty people get to make fun of you.
  - sparkie 8y ago
    Who draws the line of what these categories are? Let's say for example, you are not racist, nor sexist, but you also do not subscribe to the "positive discrimination" (oxymoron) bullshit, and instead of hiring people to meet diversity quotas, you hire people purely based on their fitness for the role you are hiring for. When you reject certain "unprivileged" individuals because others are more fit for the role, they take a disliking to you and falsely label you as racist for this decision. The hoards of do-gooder SJWs rally behind them and wrongly damage the reputation of your company based on a completely false testimony. Who are the shitty people here? Also, when you classify people based on their skin colour (white), and then use this to make a sweeping generalization, this is called racism. Your hypocrisy is offensive.
    - octernion 8y ago
      i really can't tell if you are responding in some weird attempt at playing devils advocate (in some sad alt-right personality), but in case you are actually responding in good faith... sadly it's impossible to be both "not racist, nor sexist" _and_ against "positive discrimination". not sure how much more simple i can make it for ya. sorry. no one is angry because one person of color or woman is rejected from a position; it's not a simple first-order investment but rather a structural, generational change and people are mad because folks in power are not (occasionally, and thankfully increasingly less) acknowledging that. again i know it's almost certainly too complicated for someone who is pro-structural racism and misogyny to understand. and, it's not possible to be "racist" in the way that racism is used in this structural way against white people. white men are sadly still in a position of structural power and as such you can't be racist against white people (especially white men). sorry for your lack of understanding here as well.
      - sparkie 8y ago
        "Positive discrimination" is racism. Or sexism. Or whatever group-ism it is being used to disadvantage at the favour of some other group. The idea that whites are privileged is the opposite of reality in many cases now. Non-whites have "entitlements" which whites do not, which favour them in things like hiring. The concept itself, that someone of a certain skin color should be given preference over somebody of another skin color, is racist whatever way you wish to spin it. If you're favoring one group because you dislike the other group, you're the kind of shitty person you mentioned. If you're favoring them because you pity them, and that pity is derived from your subconscious association with a group that you think aught to be pitied because of a certain stereotype (eg, skin color), then you might think that you're a good person for having such feelings - but you're really just a closet racist. I get that it has not always been the case that everyone had equality of opportunity, and that certain groups were disadvantaged in the past. We can't change the past, but we can create the future. Instead of repeating the past, by reversing the group roles, I'm in favour of eliminating all forms of discrimination. I'm astounded by your lack of self-awareness of your racism and sexism. Apparently all white men are privileged, or at least, some of them are, so we can use this to make judgements about all white men. Great. You're not a hypocrite in the slightest.

sparkie 8y ago

The social justice religion is not "being nice" or "not being racist." Most of humanity fits into those categories. (Obviously there are some exceptions). Social justice is about action to force your version of morality or ethics on society, usually by whatever means necessary, or without concern about the collateral damage caused by such actions. It usually manifests as complete hypocrisy. Let's stop hate by being hateful to people who disagree. Let's prevent exclusion of people by excluding those who disagree, etc. It's really just exchanging one form of tribalism for another, but the tribalist tendencies are still loud and clear.

octernion 8y ago
> Most of humanity fits into those categories. [citation needed]. "social justice" is absolutely that "most of humanity" does _not_ fall into those categories and in fact there are massive structural failures with society. it's not "hypocrisy" to deplatform (& socially shun) racists & misogynists, and acknowledge white privilege. if you disagree with those basic tenants than you aren't worthy of being in the discussion, and, reasonable non-shitty people get to make fun of you.
- sparkie 8y ago
  Who draws the line of what these categories are? Let's say for example, you are not racist, nor sexist, but you also do not subscribe to the "positive discrimination" (oxymoron) bullshit, and instead of hiring people to meet diversity quotas, you hire people purely based on their fitness for the role you are hiring for. When you reject certain "unprivileged" individuals because others are more fit for the role, they take a disliking to you and falsely label you as racist for this decision. The hoards of do-gooder SJWs rally behind them and wrongly damage the reputation of your company based on a completely false testimony. Who are the shitty people here? Also, when you classify people based on their skin colour (white), and then use this to make a sweeping generalization, this is called racism. Your hypocrisy is offensive.
  - octernion 8y ago
    i really can't tell if you are responding in some weird attempt at playing devils advocate (in some sad alt-right personality), but in case you are actually responding in good faith... sadly it's impossible to be both "not racist, nor sexist" _and_ against "positive discrimination". not sure how much more simple i can make it for ya. sorry. no one is angry because one person of color or woman is rejected from a position; it's not a simple first-order investment but rather a structural, generational change and people are mad because folks in power are not (occasionally, and thankfully increasingly less) acknowledging that. again i know it's almost certainly too complicated for someone who is pro-structural racism and misogyny to understand. and, it's not possible to be "racist" in the way that racism is used in this structural way against white people. white men are sadly still in a position of structural power and as such you can't be racist against white people (especially white men). sorry for your lack of understanding here as well.
    - sparkie 8y ago
      "Positive discrimination" is racism. Or sexism. Or whatever group-ism it is being used to disadvantage at the favour of some other group. The idea that whites are privileged is the opposite of reality in many cases now. Non-whites have "entitlements" which whites do not, which favour them in things like hiring. The concept itself, that someone of a certain skin color should be given preference over somebody of another skin color, is racist whatever way you wish to spin it. If you're favoring one group because you dislike the other group, you're the kind of shitty person you mentioned. If you're favoring them because you pity them, and that pity is derived from your subconscious association with a group that you think aught to be pitied because of a certain stereotype (eg, skin color), then you might think that you're a good person for having such feelings - but you're really just a closet racist. I get that it has not always been the case that everyone had equality of opportunity, and that certain groups were disadvantaged in the past. We can't change the past, but we can create the future. Instead of repeating the past, by reversing the group roles, I'm in favour of eliminating all forms of discrimination. I'm astounded by your lack of self-awareness of your racism and sexism. Apparently all white men are privileged, or at least, some of them are, so we can use this to make judgements about all white men. Great. You're not a hypocrite in the slightest.